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Post by ronhancock on Oct 16, 2014 20:04:53 GMT
Hi I have a stanier black 5 in 5" i need to make a boiler for it.
The Loco was part built 50 odd years ago and never had boiler made.
I don't have a set of drawings unfortunately and i don't know who did the original drawings.
I have been to Reeves 2000 but they only have don youngs starting from 1975.
I don@t know if their where any differences does any body know.
I only started model engineering a couple of years ago so still a newby at this.
Would love to find original history of this Model.
Sadly my uncle who started building this lovely Loco has passed away so cannot find any info.
Can anyone help where the boilers the same as don youngs !!!
Ron
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dem132
Seasoned Member
Posts: 122
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Post by dem132 on Oct 23, 2014 14:12:45 GMT
Hi Ron,
I've just got a new boiler for my Black 5, to the Don Youngs design. The boiler design itself is well known, and the boiler testers would with it. Designing your own boiler might be a bit of challenge. Don based his design from BR works drawings to a point! (waiting for other to correct me!). It might be worth looking the LBSC Doris (3.5 Black Five) and see if its based around his drawings? Do you know whether is was going to a LMS or BR std 5? As 842 were made in the end, and not all by the works! Different boiler designs/tenders etc.... a long list of "improvements" made over the years.
Cheers,Dave
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 3:03:55 GMT
Be careful an LMS black 5 and a BR std 5 are different designs, Black 5s weren't improved over the years into BR std 5s. Std 5s were inspired by Black 5s but were standardised and with many improvements to ease maintenance and operation.
Cheers
Ben
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Post by ronhancock on Oct 24, 2014 13:40:09 GMT
It's a minefield i have found my tube is longer and wider than that of the drawing.
Wed at out club they measured wheels they are 6" not 6 3/8
That frames are 3/8 longer than the drawings i now have.
Also plates been drilled 7/8 for super heaters.
And rest of pipes 1/2.
The engineering so far they all said it was first class.
I am not sure now how to proceed I could shorten boiler to the 14 3/4 as don young or leave at 16 1/2.
It would seem that it would fit ok.
I think my late uncle decided to make boiler larger to hold more water.
The welding he had done by some one else was dreadful the Smoke box my son had to Tig weld as he had brazed it with no penetration.
I also have to do the same with barrel just ordered more Sifbronze rods 958.
Being a novice it's very hard to know what to do.
I was just going to order a new tig welded boiler but would like to finish with my uncles parts.
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Post by ronhancock on Oct 24, 2014 13:42:49 GMT
Be careful an LMS black 5 and a BR std 5 are different designs, Black 5s weren't improved over the years into BR std 5s. Std 5s were inspired by Black 5s but were standardised and with many improvements to ease maintenance and operation. Cheers Ben Hi Ben yes i have been told a lot of changes mine was built over 50 years ago of the original Stanier Black 5 so much to learn about it orderd a book to read up on them when it comes Ron |
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Post by ronhancock on Oct 24, 2014 13:53:04 GMT
Hi Ron, I've just got a new boiler for my Black 5, to the Don Youngs design. The boiler design itself is well known, and the boiler testers would with it. Designing your own boiler might be a bit of challenge. Don based his design from BR works drawings to a point! (waiting for other to correct me!). It might be worth looking the LBSC Doris (3.5 Black Five) and see if its based around his drawings? Do you know whether is was going to a LMS or BR std 5? As 842 were made in the end, and not all by the works! Different boiler designs/tenders etc.... a long list of "improvements" made over the years. Cheers,Dave Hi Dave i have no Idea as i was only a boy of 14 when i first saw this Loco i am now 67 so long time ago. My late uncle new all about it but his Son only knows it was based on Stanier Black 5. At first i had no idea what it was i just new it was 5 inch. After nearly two weeks i have had a big learning curve i have as a boy ridden on footplate with my late Father as he was on Railway 42 years. The two people who could tell me more have both passed away sadly. I am now finding way forward very difficult have decisions to make and really not sure i am capable at moment. I have only been a model engineer two years so still have loads to learn and owe it to this loco to finish it to the standard it has already been built to. May i ask where you had your Boiler made and price please also would you recommend them. At warwick show last week i did see some nice Tig welded boilers i was impressed with Ron |
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dem132
Seasoned Member
Posts: 122
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Post by dem132 on Oct 24, 2014 15:05:12 GMT
Hi Ron,
Welcome to the world of model engineering! More options than the local chinese menu! The topic of TIG vs Silver soldered boilers is a long one. I was put off TIG to start with by the boiler inspectors at my local ME club, mainly due to very little guidance was available, I believe this has now changed. But really, what you should do is ask the boiler inspector at the local club you are planning at running at. I got a "special" price for my one, from John Gaunt of Devon Steam boilers. You would be looking around £3K for starting price, I had one quote for £4500, that's for a copper / silver soldered boiler.
Before ordering I would check your frames etc, I maded a cardboard model of the Don Young boiler and checked the distances etc.
Dave
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Post by ronhancock on Oct 25, 2014 16:46:51 GMT
Hi Dem yes i was going to silver solder mine but it had been Brazed before so only way i could get it done was to Tig weld wich was easy for my son but took a very large tig welder to get enough heat.
I was about to scrap my boiler till he said wait and must say he made a lovely job of them.
Saying that he weld's all day long with all types of stuff but mainly alloy and Stainless.
I think i will still silver solder my pipes we will see.
At our Club they are OK as long as it's done well so tig ok.
As for boiler i think i will cut it down to Don Young's design width is the same and frames are 1/4 to 3/8 longer.
The smoke box looks like it will sit nicely above the axle.
Our secretary at our club said as long as it fits the Smoke box and the Back is right and sit's ok above the axle the rest does not matter.
Just hope he is right just got to try and work rest out now.
It's hard to see how much the price is for a boiler bit to pricey for me i was priced £2000 for a tig boiler at the show but that was just an estimate.
For the moment see how i get on making this one but it does frighten me a little but as our boiler guy at the club said if its going to fail it will be when it under test at twice the presure makes sense really.
Thanks again Dave
Ron
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