don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 27, 2024 0:19:03 GMT
Hi “lostinclagg”, I still read various threads with interest, but haven’t posted much at all for a couple of years. I am particularly fond of the 9Fs and had a thread about my own Warnett example, back in around 2017....see Overhaul of a 9F
I would be very interested to follow your progress and offer any help I can. I have been closely involved with the engineering of a couple of the real ones that survive in preservation. Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 1, 2024 23:50:58 GMT
Hi Mike, if it’s of any help, the eccentric rods on the real thing are indeed “straight”, although the forked end is significantly offset to one side.
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Oct 11, 2023 18:01:01 GMT
HI, I hope to be there Saturday and will look out for you Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Mar 13, 2022 18:03:16 GMT
Yes, very well done !!!
Regards Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Mar 11, 2022 22:29:09 GMT
Looks like steam in from the manifold at the lower connection, feed out to the whistle at the upper one.
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Mar 9, 2022 17:33:40 GMT
I haven't seen any pictures of one myself and I think they were frowned upon by officialdom in the earlier times, when engines weren't very powerful, due to increasing coal consumption and putting greater strain on things in general.
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Mar 2, 2022 19:44:34 GMT
It’s all been said above, a fantastic achievement !
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Mar 1, 2022 21:02:05 GMT
I’ve not really been in my own workshop for over two months now, but I’m assisting with the overhaul of yet another 9F....but this one is at 12 inches to the foot! I’m currently making new spindle guides for the water gauge frames, as the originals are badly worn and have poor threads etc. There are six to make and one operation is to form a 3/4 inch internal radius in the LG4 gunmetal guides. I have no access to cnc machinery and didn’t want to try a form tool due to the cutting forces involved, risk of chatter and so on, hence devised the following method of achieving the radius:- The guides are threaded 1” BSP and were mounted into a steel threaded bush. The coordinates for machining the initial “staircase” shape were calculated using Pythagoras etc. The lathe has a DRO, making this a straightforward operation using the figures on my bit of paper:- Then I changed to a very simple radius cutting tool, using a carbide tipped round nose type mounted on a stout piece of bar in the lathe toolpost, such that it could be rotated around a close fitting pin to give the 3/4 inch radius. Taking light cuts, rotating the tool by hand, the excess material machined away quite easily:- Resulting in exactly what was required:- Simple and very effective. The next operation is milling the hexagon on the larger diameter of 1.7 inch, to suit a 7/8 BSW spanner. Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Mar 1, 2022 20:13:17 GMT
Hello David, hope you make a good recovery....sounds like you’ve had a bit of a rough time!
Best wishes Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Feb 8, 2022 22:33:31 GMT
I use an ipad most of the time to read this forum and the photos above show fine for me....sometimes though, certain members photos do take a while to “load”.
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Feb 8, 2022 22:26:06 GMT
The BR Standard steam operated cocks have springs to hold the valves off their seats.....ie “open” to drain condensate from the cylinders. When required, the driver opens a control valve that feeds live steam to pistons within the cocks that close all the valves. Under all normal conditions, steam pressure in the cylinders will not overcome the force keeping the valves closed. Thus the cocks can be open for as long as needed to clear the condensate, regardless of regulator opening.
Right, now although they are fiddly to machine and make work reliably, the Doug Hewson castings available from The Steam Workshop, are scale replicas of the real things and really look the part, should you wish to go down that route! I have them on my 9F and I fitted them a while ago to replace the original, Les Warnett ones that also looked bulky etc. etc. (although they did work well).
Unfortunately the relevant photos that were in my 9F thread were on Photobucket and have long since disappeared, but I could probably find the originals if needed....
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Feb 5, 2022 17:13:21 GMT
Well I’ll try to help but I don’t fully understand your three numbered points....
Point 1....If it is to be a “working” ejector, it would need a steam supply from its own dedicated valve, either in the cab, or like the real things, a valve just outside the cab but operated by extension spindles from within. (The real 9F ejectors had two steam supplies and therefore two valves, one for the “small” and one for the “large” ejectors....both contained within the same body).
Point 2....Sorry don’t understand what you mean by “open ended to a cowl”? The ejector vacuum would connect to the driver’s brake valve in the cab and the train vacuum pipework.
Point 3....Normally the “exhaust” steam from an ejector is piped into the smokebox and directed up the chimney along with the air it is exhausting out of the brake system pipework. Maybe the designer’s intention here was to pass the exhaust / air out via the second connection to the blower jets?
On my own model, that second connection to the jets is blanked off and the ejector itself is just a dummy as I have never needed to use vacuum for train braking.
Hope this helps, but as always, photos help in these situations.
Regards Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Feb 2, 2022 22:06:37 GMT
Hi here in the UK, Model Engineers Laser can supply brass “tabbed & slotted” parts that can be soldered together to form such “T” beading.....I used some last year on a Fowler tender and it was round about the size you require. Worth an enquiry?
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 30, 2022 19:29:00 GMT
Thanks Bob, I was wondering because with regard to the manifold on “Evening Star” nowadays, I believe that the takeoff from the very right hand end of the manifold is additionally used for the carriage warming supply, which obviously was not the case in the 1960’s! At that time it only had a smaller pipe just feeding the steam lance and cylinder lubricator warming coil.
Regards Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 30, 2022 18:16:42 GMT
Yes Bob, fantastic work on that manifold.....must have taken you a good few hours!
I know that you are following “Works Drawings” wherever possible for this model, but are you adding the additional bits here and there that the loco carries nowadays in preservation, or modelling it as it was built?
Regards Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 10, 2022 21:42:09 GMT
I’m with Andy and use an air line to blow the firebox, tubes & smokebox as clean as I can after every run. On the 9F for example, apart from the tubes it wouldn’t be easy to clean all the other areas, including its combustion chamber any other way! I brush the tubes occasionally but there’s never much in them.
Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 10, 2022 21:26:49 GMT
On the real thing there were no such doors on the very first built engines and due to the very shallow angle of the ashpan below the foundation ring and above the frames, ash would naturally build up and be difficult, if not impossible to clear easily. It wasn’t long before two ash cleaning doors were added either side, so a rake or maybe a hosepipe could be used to clear the aforementioned areas. So, if you chose to model say 92000 soon after being built, you could legitimately leave them off ! I retro fitted some to my own during its recent overhaul, but they are only dummies:- Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 10, 2022 21:02:22 GMT
Hi, my own method is to make the sheeting (some call it clothing, cleading, or cladding) for the barrel section from one piece, but this is just for ease! Obviously the real things are made from several pieces and the curved edges would normally be butted together under a boiler band, as you say. But the joins and bands would be arranged to occur over a supporting crinoline to keep everything neat and in line etc. There is no reason why your proposal of butting sheets together wouldn’t work....preferably supporting the joins somehow. I’m sure it’s possible to create the look of the real thing with lap joints as well, but the “steps” might look a bit too obvious? It is entirely up to you regarding this sort of thing. Clothing the throatplate can seem daunting, but thin brass, or copper for instance, can be formed into the required shape without much difficulty, if annealed as required. You could make a wooden former and form it round that, adjusting here & there until it fits properly to the firebox side / barrel clothing. This is what my 9F boiler looks like “naked”, the crinolines are 1/4” x 1/16” brass strip with little “standoffs” soldered on the circular ones, to space them away from the barrel itself:- Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 10, 2022 20:06:11 GMT
I'm curious to know why it is thought necessary to have a special CNC program for the X profile tyre. For goodness sake, its cylindrical with 4 well defined chamfers, and it isn't as if theres going to be a production run of hundreds of the things is it? A CNC program for the A and modified E profile, I might understand, to form the fairly complex shape of the flange. I was writing about CNC programs for the flangeless wheels in the context of re-profiling “real” 9F wheelsets in ground wheel lathes. Modern wheel lathes at Maintenance Depots etc. are CNC controlled and do the re-profiling with the wheelsets still in position....usually supported on rollers and axleboxes clamped down. The wheels / axles then revolve in their own axleboxes and the result is very accurate and suitable for high speed running. I doubt whether it’s possible to control them manually, but I was never a wheel lathe operator! Where I last worked, the lathe there could re-profile individual wheelsets, holding them between centres, but would not have been able to accommodate a complete steam loco like a 9F, as there was no way to clamp the axleboxes down. Either way, the Management wouldn’t entertain the thought....so that was the end of that! At the time, Ilford Depot were prepared to take the job on, but then I think there was a sudden policy change and that avenue got closed off as well! Cheers Don
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Jan 9, 2022 17:34:18 GMT
When my 9F was quite new and therefore bearings etc. were “unworn”, I took it to a ground level track near Derby where I was told that there was a particularly tight radius turnout from the steaming area, onto the main line.....IIRC it was 27ft radius (but couldn’t say if it had any gauge widening or not). In 5 inch gauge, this is approximately equivalent to a “full size” radius of 102 yards, or 4.6 chains....very close to the minimum for a 9F! Anticipating trouble with the drivers on this turnout, it surprised me that they were fine and it was the pony truck that derailed, due to insufficient sideways movement. I modified the pony truck to gain a little extra movement, but never went to this track again and probably never will now! (Couldn’t drive on a ground level track anymore).
Cheers Don
|
|