Bespoke dry transfers for lining

[iompeveril]

I don't know whether I have mentioned it here or not, but back last year I was fortunate to be able to purchase the gold-medal winning Isle of Wight 'O2' locomotive built by the late Gerry Tull. This came to me as no. 23 'Totland' in Southern Railway livery, but, as I only remember the 'O2's' in 1965 and 1966, I have reliveried it in BR black as no. 35 'Freshwater,' an engine that I rode behind, and which I've been able to reproduce with the minimum of alteration to Gerry's work.

One problem I've encountered is with lining the model as, apart from the fact that I was uncertain of my skill in producing a good result using transfers, there are certain curves in the lining, particularly on the bunker, that aren't catered for in standard transfer sheets.

Accordingly I looked around on the internet and was very pleased when I found a firm called 'Blackham Transfers' who said they could produce bespoke dry transfers for me. Accordingly I placed and paid for my order, but months down the line I am still waiting for my transfers.

So my question is - if I have to 'pull the plug' on Blackham Transfers, does anyone know another firm that can produce bespoke lining in dry transfer form? It seems to me that dry transfers would be ideal, as it would be possible to produce each transfer as a complete sheet, thus avoiding the need to 'piece together' straight lines and corners, which can be very difficult. Alternatively I may have to send my model away to be lined traditionally by hand.

All information gratefully received.

Peter Jordan

Castletown, Isle of Man

[jma1009]

hi Peter,

i knew Gerry Tull very well and drve Totland on a number of occasions. i am pleased to hear that Totland has gone to a good home. i am not too sure of your decision to repaint the loco in BR black, not because i dont like BR black but because the SR Maunsell green livery was part of Gerry's marvellous work/creation. you probably know why Totland was chosen by Gerry.

i would line out the loco with a draughtsmans bowpen. the LNWR lining is a bit tricky as like GWR lining out requires parallel border lines to the stripes then infilling. but still a lot easier than Stroudley livery!

cheers,
julian

[iompeveril]

Thanks for your reply, Julian.

No, I don't know why Gerry Tull chose 'Totland' as his prototype, and I've often wondered about this, given that 'Totland' was a very early withdrawal (19th September 1955, to be exact.) So do please enlighten me.

Peter Jordan

Castletown, Isle of Man

[steamcoal]

Their is a well known black and white photo I recall of Don Young driving this engine, head down stoking while smoking a cigarette.

ME or LLAS, not sure?

[jma1009]

hi hayden,
the pic you refer to is pic No.6 on p.6 of LLAS No.24 August 1985 (im in pic No.3 on that page, painting the water tower).

hi peter,
Gerry states he saw the IOW O2 Totland No.W23 for the first time in 1933. the reason Totland was chosen for his miniature version is to do with the loco's original LSWR and SR number before transfer to the IOW, the original number being 188. later, this number way carried by the new build LEW on the L&BR. Gerry was very fond of the L&BR and had some very rare archive film of it.

the IW O2s had many detailed alterations over the years, and Gerry took great care to ensure his Totland was how the fullsize loco was in 1934.

cheers,
julian

[iompeveril]

Thanks for the explanation, Julian.

So Gerry wanted a model of an engine he knew. Well, I'm exactly the same but, as I've already said, I have tried to interfere as little as possible with the work that Gerry did. Can't do much about the livery, though.

It's an odd coincidence that you should mention the Lynton & Barnstaple locomotive 'Lew' because Mike Palmer at 'Station Road Steam' has an absolutely superb model of this locomotive for sale at the moment, and the price, for such a beefy beast, seems very reasonable:

www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/5976/index.htm

Peter Jordan

Castletown, Isle of Man

 

[ejparrott]

That's nice I like the L&B MW's...I think Holly would actually murder me if I suggested bringing one home though.... I'll have to wait for Paul to build his 7.25" version and hope he lets me play!

[noggin]

Hello peter,I also new gerry from the cheltenham club,He had a king arthur loco in 5 inch gauge and some good o gauge locos,As for your Transfers try a firm, called railtec transfers,They are doing me some at the moment,but are very busy and may take a while to get back to you but they will. Regards Garry

[nonort]

Many years ago I went to a talk given by Gerry were he explained his painting of Sir Lamorak his Arthur. He apparently painted on the lines first and left them to wide then used a draughtting film called Frisk Film which is a low adhesive cut to the shape and applied it to the model. Then painted on the main colour pulling off the film whilst the paint was still wet. This has the effect of making the line rebated on the surface. Gerry's thinking was that the lining would not be worn off with cleaning the loco. I don't know if Totland was treated in the same way or not , but I do remember that both engines weren't particularly shiny. His driving wagon was of similar standard to his engines with a tray to stop you putting your hands on the loco apart from when operating the controls which I had a taste of after showing my capabilities on other lesser engines in the club.

[chris vine]

Hi Peter,

You could always try to paint the lines on, but very carefully with guide/templates and after doing lots of test pieces. As long as the base paint is properly cured, you can wipe off your lining mistakes with white spirit on cloth. It is a bit terrifying to start with as the lining paint smears all over the place but, as long as the base is truly cured, it won't be affected and you can try again.

You could also try getting the lines cut out by a vehicle sign writer on self adhesive vinyl. There can be a backing sheet to keep it all in place while you position the separate parts.

Also, as suggested above, you can use Frisk film to make up a mask on the job. You cut through it with a cutting compass etc and then paint in. It is important to remove masks like this before the paint is fully cured so that it does not tear the delicate line paint.

Also for double lines, two whites say with black in-filled, you can do the two white lines, then two thin black lines just inside the whites and then fill in the rest of the black with a brush. The little black lines act like a land or margin for error and it can look very neat. There are lots of diagrams about this and using Frisk in a certain book!...

Hope this helps
Chris Vine.

[GWR 101]

Hi Peter, yes the L&B does look a fine model from the photo's and I can imagine it being a hefty piece of kit even in 3 1/2". As Ed has indicated I am working on a 7 1/4" version, but I am just one small part of a very large team that is involved in what is a club project. Ed if it was mine you would be welcome to have a drive, but all I can say is that when it's complete if there is a chance of a drive I will let you know and put a word in for you (not as that would carry much weight). Regards Paul

[ejparrott]

I've just realized.....that's two Paul's building L&B in 7.25"!!! I was actually thinking of the one that's going to be built here in Rugby but hey, the wife'll tell you...any chance I get to drive an engine!!

[iompeveril]

Thank you to those of you who have replied so far.

On the subject of Gerry Tull's models, the 'King Arthur' was sold through the same source where I bought 'Totland' and, along with the 'O2' I also acquired the carrying cradle that Gerry had made for it and the driving trolley that was mentioned.

As far as transfers are concerned, I've had a look at 'Railtec' as someone suggested, but they only appear to do waterslide transfers, whereas I'm looking for dry, rub-down ones.

I must say that the field of transfers for model locomotives seems to be one where time has stood still, and advantage is not being taken of advances in material technology. I was using waterslide transfers on my Airfix models back in the early 1960's but it seems to me that they now have significant disadvantages over dry transfers, particularly where lining is concerned. A BIG advantage of dry transfers for lining is that the whole lining for, say, a tank or tender side, can be printed onto a sheet as a single transfer - the sheet is then laid over the surface to be lined and the transfer can be carefully applied. No more trying to get waterslide lines to go down straight and then trying to match corners accurately with them.

This was the reason I chose to go with 'Blackham Transfers' but, so far, my experience with them has been far from satisfactory to say the least.

Peter Jordan

Castletown, Isle of Man

[terry1956]

I have for the best few weeks been trying to line out and letter my Pansy. I obtained all the lining tools and started. I must say that the lining was so so. the main fault being the yellow breaking up and turning green due to the red background. after a few goes at using paint I give up. On a visit to my local model shop I came across some lining plastic tape both in black and yellow. I used the 1mm wide tape on the pannier tanks and its the best result yet. for the letter I used some printable transfer paper off amazon. I made up the letters using the PC and printed them out. using water I was able to slide the letters into place. leaving all to dry for a day I then sprayed the whole with Halfords clear coat. Maybe not the best job in the world but at 10 feet it looks good. Michael

[ejparrott]

Yellow's a right colour to get right. In your case you might have been better off applying a lining masking tape before you painted the red topcoat, and using a yellow undercoat. Then the yellow lining paint would be going on a yellow background. We've done similar when lining out my Hunslet which has red lining - also a difficult colour.

[terry1956]

hi ejparrott. I did the yellow first to start with but found that the lettering was to hard to mask off. the red was bleeding in far to much. michael

[iompeveril]

The result you have achieved looks good, Michael - and interesting to see that you are turning your pannier out in LT livery. I saw the one painted thus on the South Devon Railway a few years ago, and I must say it looks very smart.

Unfortunately lining for a BR black 'O2' is not easy. The grey outer band has a very thin cream band immediately inside it, so the proportions have to be absolutely correct for it to look right. Then there are also some complex reverse curves on the bunker and splasher lining. But I can't understand why, six months after he was paid to produce my transfers, I am still waiting for Peter Blackham to come up with the goods. I'm really going to have to chase him to produce what I want or get my money back. Then I might be looking to invite someone over to the island to line the model in the traditional way as, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be anyone on the island with the appropriate skill.

Peter Jordan

Castletown, Isle of Man

[terry1956]

Thanks Peter, I am happy with the result. you can make some very complex turns with 1mm wide tape and I used this to line the cab and tool boxes on the pansy. I think with the rise in wraps and improved software hand sign writing is dying out. I rang lots of sign writers in the hope that someone would have the skill needed to paint the lining etc. but know joy.I pulled up a picture of your loco and yes the lines are very thin. I don't know what your PC skills are like but you could have a go at making your own transfers for the sections using photoshop or better software if you have it. then clear coat them to stop break up when in use. michael

[chris vine]

Hi Terry,

Re your trouble getting the yellow to properly cover the base coat: sometimes it is possible to by paints specially made for lining. They are extra heavily pigmented, to overcome exactly this problem.

Chris.

[terry1956]

thanks chris did look into that. but the red paint I was using would of reacted to any other make. I go to my local paint factors for paint and they sale all types but in the end the tape won out. with the clear coat on top there are know edges to be seen and it looks like paint so it should stand the test of time and many steam ups. thanks again. michael