Noddy
Statesman
Posts: 672
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Post by Noddy on Jan 7, 2008 12:14:56 GMT
In the cheque book thread; Ron said that we are probably the last generation who could re-start technology after some global disaster. After the first priority of permenantly sealing the politicians into their bunker is safely taken care of.... I now know how to generate flat surfaces (lapping or scraping at least 3 surfaces together.... OK no more showing off ) But how does one generate accurate cylinders bores and balls spheres from scratch? I have visions of all sorts of odd shapes that are anything but spherical, and I have serious doubts about my abilities with a pole lathe? Those are just the very basics, I'm sure there are lots more basics to work out before anything big can be made? Keith PS who do we get to hold their arm out for the basis of linear measurements? and will the Aga-Khan be around to set the gold standard for weights?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2008 18:49:00 GMT
If we are restarting technology can I have the patent rights to the wheel please? ;D
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Post by havoc on Jan 7, 2008 19:02:17 GMT
Only one way I guess: build a crude simple lathe in order to build a better lathe. Rinse and repeat...
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abby
Statesman
Posts: 927
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Post by abby on Jan 7, 2008 19:39:39 GMT
How many sides Val ?
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 7, 2008 21:00:19 GMT
Ron's comment is probably correct. Few people could drill for oil, and then refine it to be able to run a car, truck, whatever. We could burn wood to run a steam engined whatever.
We could manage to knock up some form of solar heating to get some hot water.
We could (those of us who grew up with large electronics) manage to get some for of radio communication working, whereas in most doomsday scenarios, all them little silicon-based thingies would have died permanently.
So, we could have heat, hot water, and energy to aid basic agriculture, perhaps provide electricity, some transport, etc.
We could get working again, or even build, wind and water mills.
We could do most of this with basic tools, and even make, if they were not available, simple machine tools, perhaps using them to make improved versions.
What is almost certain is that those who only know the latest high-tech, or even worse, know nothing of technology whatsoever, would be completely lost.
In fact, one could make a long list of jobs that, in the aforesaid doosmday scenario, would be totally useless.
However, let us hope that none of us ever finds out whether or not this is true.
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Post by havoc on Jan 7, 2008 21:26:52 GMT
I think most of those scenarios underestimate the adaptablility and ingenuity of the human race. When need is really high people will do things they never even dreamed of.
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Post by ron on Jan 8, 2008 9:55:43 GMT
Talking of really high people, as long as someone remembers the recipe for booze we'll be all right and it'll give DJ something to do telling us to cut down on it ;D Ron
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Post by havoc on Jan 8, 2008 11:00:34 GMT
Do you have some basic info on those? I remember seeing such a pump years ago but so far I haven't found much info on them.
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Post by chameleonrob on Jan 8, 2008 11:26:47 GMT
just to throw a spanner in the works, given the average age of model engineers, how many of us could get by with a fully functional Pharmaceutical industry, I may only be 29 but I couldn't.
rob
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 8, 2008 16:28:09 GMT
Ram pumps were comprehensively described in a series in Model Engineer, in 1970 (71?) by E H Jeynes plus several short articles in Jeyes Corner.
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abby
Statesman
Posts: 927
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Post by abby on Jan 8, 2008 20:10:43 GMT
Why would we want to re-start technology? most technology is driven by the weapons industry or the consumer market not to mention the over-crowding of the planet.
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 8, 2008 22:14:03 GMT
Mmmm, not so sure. Some technology is really useful. Ploughing by machine rather than hand digging, modern medical technology, processing grain, and many others things are real benefits.
Of course, in that "doomsday scenario" overcrowding isnt likely to be a problem.
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Post by havoc on Jan 9, 2008 11:14:47 GMT
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lancelot
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 471
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Post by lancelot on Jan 9, 2008 12:48:59 GMT
Hi Havoc, Now there is possibly a lifetimes worth of tuition learning and skill in that little video...need I say more... All the best for now, John.
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hat
Active Member
Posts: 48
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Post by hat on Jan 9, 2008 13:00:35 GMT
Brilliant I wonder if he is available to help with my projects? My father used to make spirit level tubes - in the good old days they were curved and he had a furnace about 6 feet long and there was a curved steel bed. The glass tubes were laid across the bed and the furnace switched on - as the glass heated up it drooped into shape. It was then cooled under control and chopped into lengths,one end was twisted off and the tube filled with spirit to form the bubble - this was then sealed off using a similar technique to the bulb maker.
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 9, 2008 13:59:34 GMT
I am more than happy to use them, but dont think I will / could make them too.
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Noddy
Statesman
Posts: 672
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Post by Noddy on Jan 9, 2008 14:36:25 GMT
I'll never make one, but out of curiosity, would that be nichrome, platinum, tungsten or tantalum for the metal bits?
I suspect I'm completely wrong, but isn't galena (lead sulphide) the semi conductor in "cat's whisker" circuits?
The first bits of technology we'd probably need would be curing leather for horse harness, and spinning wool, flax etc for repairing clothing, that along with moisture, vermin and weed control on crops and controlling the 2 legged vermin that as today thinks it is entitled to the fruits of others skills and hard work...
I'll not ask for destructions on noose tying.
Freedom from water authorities trying to charge for the water that passes through a water mill, and the absence of planning authorities would make wind and water power practical possibilities again.
on the ram pump theme, there are some fantastic possibilities if a good vertical drop is available:
water going down a vertical pipe will tend to cavitate, this can be encouraged with a venturi with holes in it at the top of the pipe.
The descending water will then carry entrained air down with it. This can be captured in a conventional receiver, and the remaining water lead back to an outlet at intermediate elevation. which controls the pressure in the receiver.
Now for the clever bit:
using the compressed air to power an air lift pump, possibly helped allong by an ejector, a smaller quantity of water can be pumped to a much higher elevation than the inlet to the system, and all without moving parts.
There were a couple of these operating in the Nenthead area of Cumbria at the end of the 19th century and first couple of decades of the 20th, and much of the pipework remains in the Brewery shaft at Rampgill mine. interestingly the water from the exhaust of the system was carried back down the shaft and used to turn a pelton wheel, which reputedly powered the first electric public street lighting. A couple of pelton wheels also remain at the bottom of the shaft.
I gather that a full system like it is preserved at Bochum, in Germany.
Keith
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Post by havoc on Jan 10, 2008 11:12:06 GMT
LOL! Just shows how practical some people are.
Now that is something that also struck my toughts a few days ago when thinking about this thread. Lots of the crops we use (even the non GM kind) are sterile. Same for fruit trees. Some animals can't even reproduce without considerable help or have lost all natural resistance.
Other toughts were how interconnected everything is. Noddy mentioned "spinning wool". But it already means you have sheep of the wool producing variety, the knowledge to breed and herd them and shears to shave them. And even then you need to work the raw wool before you can spin it. Like degreasing (maybe not as much as now because we will probably like it to be a bit waterproof) and carding. We could do without painting (although that is easy with plants) for starters. And then we need to weave it and that needs looms.
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Post by ausdan on Jan 10, 2008 11:56:51 GMT
Well at least there would be a chance of doing things better and the number one on the list, would be to start in Metric and leave imperial system back in the old world were it belongs
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 10, 2008 12:03:23 GMT
Noddy, you can make a cats whicker out of lots of minerals, even coal. Did that back in my college days.
As for wool etc, even dyeing would be tricky without a mordaunt, and the usual one, alum, takes a vast amount of processing from the raw shale.
Not going to touch the metic v imperial subject though!
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