paul
Member
Posts: 8
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Post by paul on Mar 13, 2008 10:43:59 GMT
Does anyone have any comments on this lathe/mill/drill as I'm thinking of getting one?
Anything in particular I should look out for if buying secondhand?
Any idea what the optional 'Model B-Super' accessory @ £164.50 is?!
TIA
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Post by dickdastardly40 on Mar 13, 2008 11:21:18 GMT
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Post by AndrewP on Mar 13, 2008 11:43:01 GMT
Paul, I've got Chester's smaller (Cobra) lathe and mill, having mused over the 3 in 1 version I actually listened to advice for once and bough the separate machines and am really glad I did. The advice I got was that on most 3 in 1s the milling is extremely compromised both in rigidity and in the size of the milling table. Taking down a setup to use the other system is also apparently a pita.
Just looking at that machine it sounds like a huge throw and looks like a very tall saddle/cross slide assembly, how rigid could that be?
My personal experience is that Chester's commitment is limited to sending you the box they got from China and probably haven't opened.
Don't forget you'll spend at least the same again on tooling ;D
Cheers, Andy
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Mar 13, 2008 11:59:14 GMT
G'day Paul
I had a look at 3 in 1s before getting my lathe. I now have a mill as well. The only reason I could see for getting a 3 in 1 is space. I can't see any other advantages except perhaps cost.
One thing which put me off was the milling head hanging over the bed. I reckon I would have brained myself with the thing by now. Considering the lead screw is your X travel think how much backlash you have in your lathe half nuts to see how it would be a PitA. The other compromise is the size of the work table. Even on the X2 mill there is room for a 4" vice on one end and a rotary table (if I had one) on the other.
If you can't afford a mill then get a good size lathe with a cross slide with T nut slots and a milling attachment. In Oz a lathe suitable for milling costs about AUD1500 and a milling attachment AUD225. My little 7x12 is not good enough in my mind for serious milling. I find the X2 mill a bigger machine than the 7x12 lathe. Strange, you would think the C2 lathe would partner an X2 mill.
Regards, Ian
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Post by circlip on Mar 13, 2008 12:11:00 GMT
Unfortunately these machines look like rubbish and I wouldn't give one houseroom. HOWEVER, if you look on some of the sites in TLOTF, absolutely amazing work has been done on them, which just goes to show it's operator skill and not the machine which limits the quality of the finished work. Space saving, yes, that's why I use a head attachment on my Maximat despite having space for a "proper" miller if I wanted, but I keep bashing on with the same statement Cut don't cleave, it might take a bit longer, but after all this is supposed to be a hobby.
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Post by dickdastardly40 on Mar 13, 2008 12:14:34 GMT
In hind sight to my previous post the slowest lathe speed is 160 RPM which seems very quick for thread cutting, you'd need to be blimmin' quick to open the half nuts and almost imposible to cut a imperial thread stopping it in time to prevent crashing. This is only my opinion.
There is no thread dial included as standard not does it include a 4 jaw or any steadies so some of this could be part of the extra accessory package.
Something else to ponder is how is the chuck attached, if screwed running in reverse if needs be can potentially unscrew the chuck (like a myford) the size of the hole through the spindle and if the 'nose' can accept collets in due course should you need them.
Best Always
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Post by Nigel Bennett on Mar 13, 2008 12:51:07 GMT
When I saw one in the flesh, my immediate response was "UGHHH!!"
As people have said, lack of rigidity and other shortcomings make this a horrible machine, to be avoided if at all possible.
Attempts to make universal machine tools (such as the Murad Bormilathe) usually end in too many compromises, not least of which is the time taken to set up and break down every time you want to do something else.
If you've got the room, go for separates.
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Post by ausdan on Mar 13, 2008 12:57:04 GMT
you'd need to be blimmin' quick to open the half nuts and almost imposible to cut a imperial thread stopping it in time to prevent crashing. This is only my opinion. have done minimal screw cutting, but did a job where I started from the shoulder and used reverse gear, that way the end of the operation runs off the end of the work nice and safe
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Post by dickdastardly40 on Mar 13, 2008 13:40:53 GMT
have done minimal screw cutting, but did a job where I started from the shoulder and used reverse gear, that way the end of the operation runs off the end of the work nice and safe Lateral thinking is of course the order of the day, depends on the job, the set up and lathe, a screwed chuck run backwards without a tailstock centre for support can result in a ruined job or the tool run into the tailstock. You have to have your tool upside down or behind the job and not all toolposts have the height to allow this or all crossslides the reach or you'd need a rear tool post. Could be this is a separate topic all on its own. Don't want to distract from others helping Paul's decision.
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PH
Seasoned Member
Posts: 112
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Post by PH on Mar 13, 2008 14:19:24 GMT
I've had one of these machines for over 10 years and have produced a lot of swarf and perfectly good parts with it. I rarely use the mill because I have access to a bigger and heavier mill. The Chester can mill just as well as any other mill of similar dimensions. If you want to mill, be careful to lock up the axes you're not using and move the work the right way against the cutter - but that's normal milling practice anyway, isn't it? It's true there is quite a lot of backlash. Some can be adjusted out, and some needs shims to eliminate. The other way is to adjust out what you can, measure the backlash left with a dial gauge, chalk it on the wall above the machine and bear it in mind when cutting (my way!). Don't all machines have backlash, even the Holy Myford? It's true the lowest speed is way too high for screwcutting. It's possible to cobble an extra pulley to the motor shaft and to the layshaft to drop the speed (I've done it), although the best way would be to fit the motor to a new mounting plate below the present mounting and a layshaft in place of the present motor, using 2 or 3 stage pulleys. I've only ever cut a thread to experiment and the way to do it is to turn the motor off near the end of the cut, finish the cut turning the spindle by hand and then retract the tool without disengaging the half nuts, then reverse the motor to return to the beginning of the cut.
Ok it's not the most advanced machine ever built, nor the best quality available on the market. It is a very competent lathe, an acceptable mill for its size, all for a price that would barely get a packet of screws and a can of oil from Myford.
Living up to their (in my view, justified) reputation, Chester were useless about sending me a replacement when the motor failed after less than 3 months' very light use.
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Noddy
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Post by Noddy on Mar 13, 2008 16:06:17 GMT
Paul, can I suggest you think long and hard before you buy, and, if time and other commitments allow, go around and try a few different individual machines.
You don't say why you are thinking of the combination machine rather than seperate machines, space? money? like the idea?
There are some real bargains going with bigger machines at present, as people retire or go out of business, and with mills and lathes, rigidity makes a real difference to finish and accuracy as well as speed of work.
I'm in the process of getting over a tonne of universal mill home and re assembled. I was given it rather than it go to the scrap man!
Even light mills have much greater slide way contact area than a hobby lathe, and have some mechanism to control backlash in feed screws, as well as convenient locks on each axis.
The 3 in 1 is going to be compromised on those, and with the greater reach to get the head over the headstock and any riser blocks needed to get the topslide / table up above the bed, you are adding to stress on already inadequate slideways, and really compromising rigidity.
In the end though, your choice
Keith
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Noddy
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Posts: 672
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Post by Noddy on Mar 13, 2008 17:16:51 GMT
Just been chatting to our "Acidic Doctor", who says:
"Don't do it, the 3 in 1s are a bad joke, get a seperate milling machine and lathe"
thought I'd pass that on Keith
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Post by alanstepney on Mar 13, 2008 19:28:22 GMT
There are several different 3-in-1 machines, and although similar, some are better and more versatile than others. Quite apart from being better built.
A few years ago I helped a pal check out all those that were on the market at the time, and found that some were much better than others, and also, and perhaps more importantly, some of the companies were far keener on looking after their customers and had better technical knowledge.
Hence, it really is worth looking at ALL of them and not just sticking to one supplier.
Although a 3-in-1 wont be as good as seperate machines, if that is all that can be managed, either for space or economic reasons, then it is better than nothing.
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paul
Member
Posts: 8
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Post by paul on Mar 13, 2008 22:39:39 GMT
As usual, a terrific amount of helpful advice from everyone and I am indebted to you *ALL*.
The 3-in-1 was being considered purely from a space point of view - the chance of losing the lathe and drill press and gaining some milling ability in roughly the same space sounded very attractive as did the ability to make a vice travel in a straight line for whatever reason.
No doubt there are proponents of the 3-in-1 concept that love their machines and are able to produce good work on them (just as I love my little lathe though others would no doubt disparage it). The majority view however seems to be 'don't compromise everything for the sake of convenience or cost'.
So, I'm going to hang fire and look for a dedicated milling machine (I guess I can still say bye bye to the cheesy 'Clarke' pillar drill though!) that fits the space and budget constraints. Until then I will continue to hone my filing and sawing skills.
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Mar 14, 2008 2:05:28 GMT
G'day Paul The Armstrong mill has much to recommend it. My drill press now stands almost idle since getting my mill. The quill wanders so I can't be bothered with it. I fitted it with an X-Y table of low quality which made it more useful but the movement of the quill under pressure frustrates me. I posted here once regarding putting in adjustable gibs for the quill but got no encouragement. The outcome was I had the family club together to buy me a mill for a significant birth date. A great purchase, it is now hard to say which is more useful, the lathe or the mill. SWMBC asked me what I wanted a mill for? My answer, "to make round things square". Her second question was, "can't the lathe do that?" My response was, "no, that makes square things round". I wish I had photographed her look. regards, Ian
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Post by havoc on Mar 14, 2008 11:21:05 GMT
A mill is a very good pilar drill. Since I have my mill, the dill is somewhere in a corner and only used for woodwork.
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Post by circlip on Mar 14, 2008 11:44:55 GMT
Don't knock yer little lathe Paul, it's bigger than a Sheerline and look at the work that's capable of. How big do you need to go? I know on the "signalfailure" site they talk about big swing machinery, but then seem to revel in finger engines and coffee cup powered Stirling engines, but there again, their "workshops"are bigger than some of todays small business industrial units over here. Akin to one of my toolroom mentors exercises in turning watch balance staffs on a Myford Super Seven, seen it done but I never tried it. Seen your "corner workshop" thought about a mill/drill? Don't forget that the lathe could also be stored UNDER the bench when not in use. despite everyones valuable advise at the end of the day it's your pocket that's going to suffer so look cold and hard at what you want from the hobby. Noddy'll sell you a Deckel, I'd sell you a Bridgeport, that "Scottish person", a piece of far eastern cr4p, investigate the limitations, buy what YOU think and personalize it to suit your needs, oh yes whatever you buy is not going to be what you thought you needed at the time but don't let it stop you from making swarf. Frugal Yorkshireman, Ian.
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Smifffy
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Post by Smifffy on Mar 14, 2008 19:18:29 GMT
I had a Model B a few years back. I'm far from being an expert, but I found the lathe ok. The mill however was very limited and not much use. Definitely do not get the optional stand, it's more flexible than a flexible thing!
I now have a Boxford BUD which I love and a Warco Minor (I think!) Mill, which I use way more than the lathe. I have no problem with the Mill.
With both the limitations are with me and not the machines.
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Post by spurley on Mar 23, 2008 14:51:07 GMT
Hi Paul
Hope this reply isn't too late?
I have a 3 in 1 and so far, five years down the road, have been very pleased with the results. I chose it mainly for the price and thought that, as I work on my own, I could only be doing one operation at a time and the combination would work for me. There is some backlash and the machine may not be quite as rigid, by the nature of the centre height?, as previously noted and the milling head needs to be securely locked before any milling can be contemplated. I have produced a working Tich on it which I am very satisfied with, as well as making parts for my friend's 3 wheeler Morgan and other odd sundry one offs. Bearing in mind the tolerances required to get a satisfactory working engine in 3 1/2" scale/gauge IMHO the machine is very capable . I haven't done any screwcutting either but have machined most materials with good results; brass, bronze, aluminium, mild steel, silver steel, high carbon steel and plastics with equal success. I would have liked an endless money supply to buy a more 'respected' make but I have no major complaints and can work within any limitations of this machine.
Buy what suits you and meets your budget, I would say.
Cheers
Brian
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Post by chris vine on Mar 23, 2008 16:08:17 GMT
Hi Paul,
it is up to you obviously. Some of the 3 in 1 machines have a horrible system where the top slide forms the moving jaw of the milling vice. I think I would especially try to avoid one of these!!
(Hope yours is not of this type Brian..??!)
Chris.
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