Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 4, 2011 12:14:30 GMT
Hi Lads
I have been offered a Ton Senior E for £500 I haven't seen it yet but I would love some advice whether it's a good mill for all round milling tasks not just model making I need something that will mill and drill as I will have to part with my trusty old pillar drill to fit in the mill.
1, My concerns are a round column and registering problems?
2, MT2 is that man enough I was hoping to go R8?
3, It looks a little flimsy in the pics I've seen compared to say a 626 is it man enough for most jobs or will I find it lacking?
4, Should I wait and get something heavier?
Any help really appreciated...
Lee
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Post by digger on Jun 5, 2011 0:23:21 GMT
For £500, if it's complete and in good condition for it's age, then go for it!
Tom Senior built quality machines, all machines have limitations, you just need to use them within their capacity.
You would have no trouble selling it on, for the price paid.
Digger
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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 5, 2011 8:05:18 GMT
I have this machine, and I am satisfied with it.
The round column is NOT a problem, as there is a bar on one side of the column preventing any rotation. I also added a varaible speed drive made by SIEMENS. No problems...
Over time, I modified a bit here and there to make handling easier, like nice hand wheels, DRO etc
Johannes
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 5, 2011 9:57:27 GMT
Thanks lads I think I will go for it then, I am only getting the info for the mill second hand as I haven't been able to talk to the chap that owns it yet it's through a friend.
The info I've had is a little confusing I know it's a Tom Senior but the chap says the vertical head for it is an optional extra, which leads me to think that it could be it's bigger brother the universal model but that the head has a quill could that be correct the ones I've seen have a basic head and you use the knee for adjustment?
Lee
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Post by districtgrandmaste on Jun 6, 2011 9:57:04 GMT
I have had a Model E Tom Senior for about five years and I'm very pleased with it. CEW
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 11, 2011 16:45:20 GMT
OK finally had some pics through of this elusive mill below is a couple of pics it turns out it's not the 'E' as I thought but this is all there is at the moment the right angle head is available to me but does belong to another chap and he wants £350 for it but I really want a proper vertical head... The mill itself as it stands has been offered to me at £150 which I'm thinking is a bit of a bargain but that's all there is what is the chances of getting a head and maybe the horizontal bits I'd need? I don't want a 1/2 ton paper weight!...   |
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Post by chris vine on Jun 11, 2011 21:11:05 GMT
Hi Seaco,
There is one disadvantage of this type of vertical head. I have one on my harrison mill.
It does not have a quill so drilling has to be done by raising the table. This is ok if you just want to drill a vertical hole, but if you want to drill a hole at an angle, for example a steam passage in a cylinder casting, you have to mount the cylinder at the angle you want to drill the hole.
if you had a head with a quill you could just tilt the head over and drill the hole with the casting left vertical or however it was set.
It doesn't sound like a big problem, but I come up against it from time to time.
Unfortunately you cant tip the head over and then drill by raising the table, unless you want bent drills..........!
Chris.
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 11, 2011 22:23:30 GMT
Hi Chris
I will have to get a proper vertical head for the mill with a quill and in R8 if possible, the one that's on it wouldn't be suitable for my needs as well as it's an extra £350! and as the mill is only £150 I think it's a good starting point but I'm wondering how hard it will be to get a suitable head.
As I said I don't want a huge paper weight! I have seen you can fit a Bridgeport head but that may be to big for the space I have...
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 23, 2011 20:22:11 GMT
Been to see the mill now it is an M1 and it's a bit vintage 1946 but overall it's it pretty good nick the chap moved the motor into the base which is cast and original as it has Tom Senior moulded into it the power feed is there but pretty worn, I've decided not to go for the right angle head even the owner agreed as it's only MT2 and once fitted to the column and a cutter inserted it somewhat limits the size of the piece you can fit under it!
OK so now I'm looking for a Bridgeport head or similar...
Lee
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Post by Boadicea on Jun 24, 2011 7:49:09 GMT
The mill itself as it stands has been offered to me at £150 which I'm thinking is a bit of a bargain ....... Lee, I think it was a gift. You have got a good start to making a nice mill, even with the vertical head. I think you might manage OK with the vertical head if you have it (at least it gets you up and running) - depends on how beefy you want to get. If not, and you fancy something else, you should be able to sell it for more than you paid for it if it is in decent nick - they are sought after and rarely become available. Keep us posted. |
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 24, 2011 10:24:40 GMT
The mill itself as it stands has been offered to me at £150 which I'm thinking is a bit of a bargain ....... Lee, I think it was a gift. You have got a good start to making a nice mill, even with the vertical head. I think you might manage OK with the vertical head if you have it (at least it gets you up and running) - depends on how beefy you want to get. If not, and you fancy something else, you should be able to sell it for more than you paid for it if it is in decent nick - they are sought after and rarely become available. Keep us posted. I would have had the head but it belongs to another chap and he wants £350 for it which is probably it's money but the chap selling the mill says he wouldn't buy it due to it's limitations, if it was £100 I would have had it just to get me going but it's over twice what I'm paying for the mill! I realise that getting a proper Tom Senior vertical head will be very difficult but I'm thinking that as long as any head has it's own motor then I can possibly make it fit is that correct? Lee |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jun 24, 2011 15:13:29 GMT
Vertical heads are expensive. The quill ones for a centec can fetch £600, and the non quill ones about £400, when the mill to fit them on is about £200. I'd be tempted even at £350, because at least you know it fits, and you can be milling straight away. If you ever find a 'proper' one, you will have no difficulty selling on this one, and at least you will have been using the mill in the meantime. Look at the shed again, are you sure you can't squeeze the drill in there somewhere as well as the mill?
Regards
Richard
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Post by bobpendleton on Jun 24, 2011 17:14:55 GMT
...I've decided not to go for the right angle head even the owner agreed as it's only MT2 and once fitted to the column and a cutter inserted it somewhat limits the size of the piece you can fit under it! Lee My limited experience tends to agree on the size issue. Luckily(?) my Amolco while also being MT2, has the Myford nose which means Myford collets can be run with minimal height loss. However, I've been reading opinions (not on this forum) that MT collets are not ideal for milling. I presume the point is that they're fine in the lathe but not in the mill? I realise this is a bit off the present topic but I'd certainly welcome any enlightenment, especially on the allied question of what is the best solution when it comes to maximising the vertical clearance. Bob |
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jun 24, 2011 18:41:58 GMT
Well you have all changed my mind and now I'm getting the head also, I'm sort of glad as has been said at least I can start using it straight away and move it on when a proper head comes along...
Lee
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joegib
Seasoned Member
Posts: 123
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Post by joegib on Jun 25, 2011 5:59:37 GMT
My limited experience tends to agree on the size issue. Luckily(?) my Amolco while also being MT2, has the Myford nose which means Myford collets can be run with minimal height loss. However, I've been reading opinions (not on this forum) that MT collets are not ideal for milling. I presume the point is that they're fine in the lathe but not in the mill? I realise this is a bit off the present topic but I'd certainly welcome any enlightenment, especially on the allied question of what is the best solution when it comes to maximising the vertical clearance. Bob This was discussed at length here: modeleng.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=toolsandtooling&thread=5766&page=1Joe |
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Post by bobpendleton on Jun 25, 2011 10:13:27 GMT
Thank you, Joe; sorry all, I should have checked the archive. The Amolco is a more recent acquisition or I'd have noticed the thread at the time. Bob |
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jul 7, 2011 22:12:04 GMT
Finally got my new / old mill and now I've got to put the puzzle together I am going to put in a 3 phase motor so I can adjust the speed (I already have this), do you think this is a good idea?    Lee |
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Post by alanstepney on Jul 8, 2011 7:26:34 GMT
Yes.
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Seaco
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 228
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Post by Seaco on Jul 8, 2011 10:04:56 GMT
Now that's what I call to the point!....  |
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Post by Boadicea on Jul 10, 2011 9:01:40 GMT
There is only one answer. Same answer for the lathe.
To elaborate - for me the upside is it nearly eliminates belt-changing, which I think is crude engineering and time-wasting, and it is infinitely variable. For me - no downside. All IMHO.
I think you got a very good deal.
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