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Post by 4fbuilder on Oct 30, 2016 23:53:08 GMT
Hi all,
One old chap I knew when asked what's a metre, replied, "simple it's a yard and the thicknes of a brick and a tile" there's Sussex logic for you. Go in a builders merchant and ask for half a bushel of sand, the reaction is priceless!
Regards
Bob
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Post by Roger on Oct 31, 2016 8:57:24 GMT
haha.....It's ok David, you're not alone in metric vs imperial or even number sizes....I guess I'm in the lucky group having first learnt imperial but then learnt metric as we converted to decimal back in the early 70's. I was very young still so picked up both fairly easily. Funny thing is although I convert to metric for getting a visual idea on a given small size I use imperial for larger sizes when talking in feet....perhaps I'm just a bit weird... Pete Pete Just winding up the Roger. Bought a sheet of ply yesterday, 4 by 8 and ten mil thick, who is thick? Must get head down and do some metal bashing, too much time running a club and all that. Bless old 'Simpleloco' he put me onto the primer and it is a great catharthis (spelling), just priming a bit of work completes it. In my case a tender startered twenty years agol! Cheers D Glad to see you're back. I tell the metal stockholder what the finished size of the job is these days when I order material for a specific job rather than guess the stock size. Often as not, they'll come back with a weird Imperial size that's closest to the size I need. I've also had to change my boiler design to use imperial sized PB102, Metric sizes don't seem to be common in that material. I'm staggered that more than 50 years on, we're still not supplying materials exclusively in Metric sizes.
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Post by joanlluch on Oct 31, 2016 13:48:35 GMT
That whole subject on imperial sizes and materials that are only available in imperial sizes is very odd as seen from someone in a metric only zone. The non-availability of something in metric size in the U.K. is definitely a mater of willingness of the supplier, or a cultural issue. Period.
I only learned about the existence of some imperial units after I entered this hobby. Yes this is true. I certainly have heard of what an inch was, but that was all. And do not get me wrong, I have a superior degree on Industrial Enginnering and I worked on this field for over 20 years so I should know. But the reality is that I never ever before entering this hobby two years ago I used anything else than what the British call "metric". "Metric" is the only used and existing system, and of course everything is available in this system. It doesn't even need a name, as it's the only one.
So again the fact that something does not exist unless you order it in "imperial" in the UK is just explained by a particular cultural difference, not because the material is not really available in metric.
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Post by 4fbuilder on Oct 31, 2016 19:18:00 GMT
Good afternoon Joan,
Hola
It's all to do with supply and demand, it's not just this hobby, the steel industry etc do not manufacture for the likes of us, their sales to the model enginnering market are infinitesimal by comparison to the sales to industry here and for the export market. It's not a cultural difference, it's not parochialism it's simply supply and demand. The industries would soon change if the demand was there, but obliviously there's a greater market and that includes the world demands for "imperial" sections. It must be remembered for the majority of the last hundred and fifty years much of the world map was part of the British empire, that and much of the rest of the world came to the United Kingdom for it's knowledge and supplies to industry. In all probability it'll be a while before much of world decides to change to a metric system. Unlike yourself, I for the first thirty years of my working life used solely the imperial units then with a change of career there was a gradual change to the metric system. I use both today and still use the imperial units for model engineering. It must be appreciated, here, if one is building a close scale miniature locomotive from original "imperial" drawings as are British and half the worlds locomotive production, it's so much simpler to use imperial units, it's immaterial what the stock is measured in, as most cases items are reduced from stock material, watch Roger and his CNC prductions. Available rivets and fixings involved if building a close scale prototype again need to be based on the orignal full size imperial sizes, Nuts and bolt heads again generally fall within the imperial or AF ranges. Sadly some of the metric fastnings available here are of very poor quality and form and do not begin to represent the prototype fixings, the alternative being to produce your own.
As my old mate used to say "millimetres, there's undreds of them in a foot"
Regards,
Bob
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Post by joanlluch on Oct 31, 2016 20:33:25 GMT
Hi Bob,
My post was not meant to be a criticism, but just a statement of an oddity. I appreciate and understand that the imperial system was the only standard in Great Britain and their colonies during a given time, and it is still used for historical reasons. This is out of the question, but this system was superseded by the metric system some time ago. In fact, your post just confirms my point: you can name it in several ways, but at the end of the day the use of imperial remains a cultural thing. "Culture" is defined as "the ideas, customs and social behaviour of a particular people or society". Note that "custom" is defined as "a traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time". So that's the ultimate reason why the imperial system is still being used today, because it was used in the past in Britain!. This brings all sort of consequences, among them the fact that some items are only available in imperial sizes in the UK, and that metric items may be of inferior quality there. Well, this is because the said cultural thing, not because the metric items have any reason to be inferior. In fact, if you look globally, it's just the opposite. The availability of metric sized components for all the industry sectors is far greater than imperial sized ones, you have far more choice, and their quality is generally better because of greater demand and customer exigence. Of course, the big global players still produce imperial sized items and will keep producing them for a while, but that's because the (shrinking) demand that still exists for them due to the said cultural reason. I can't even imagine anything done in the industry using imperial units, as I previously posted I have never seen such a thing. Is it because of the "culture" I am in?, yes it is. My culture is exclusively metric.
[edited for typo]
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Post by drumkilbo on Oct 31, 2016 20:50:03 GMT
4' 8 1/2", need I say more?
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Post by joanlluch on Oct 31, 2016 20:56:04 GMT
4' 8 1/2", need I say more? LOL, I just discovered that you use a single quote to say "feet" as opposed to the double quotes for "inches" (I already knew that one). Is this right?. I hadn't realised that before.
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Nov 1, 2016 6:48:00 GMT
4' 8 1/2", need I say more? LOL, I just discovered that you use a single quote to say "feet" as opposed to the double quotes for "inches" (I already knew that one). Is this right?. I hadn't realised that before. Yes, you've got it. At least we changed the currency. Pre 1971, we had 20 shillings in a pound, and 12 pence in a shilling. Shops would write 1/3 to mean one shilling and three pence. Just to make matters more absurd, some shops displayed prices in guineas. A giunea was one pound and a shilling, so if you bought something marked 6 1/2 gns you'd pay £6 16/6! Wilf
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Nov 1, 2016 11:30:12 GMT
Well, back to the Aspinal!. I am now directed to use a 44 drill for the holes to hold the buffer stock to the rear drag box and for BA 8. It works too!!! Cheers David
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Nov 1, 2016 18:39:44 GMT
Julian started a "What I have done today", perhaps I should start a "question of the week" Here is the front coupling hook from the front of our little A class. The rear one uses the front one's dimensions for the bit sticking out even though it is about 4 inches long. Same idea as the picture, just a much longer 1/4" round shaft. I suppose this is a filing exercise with a little turning. Getting used to filing now after 'simplyloco' lessons but with two to make it seemed that someone might be wiser than me?? Cheers David Coupling Hook by David Goyder, on Flickr
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Jan 12, 2017 21:04:22 GMT
Hi All Just to lt you know that SWMBO has let me out. Not really, she wanted a OO railewy to make scenery for and that is done. Took a few bits to the show and tell and was told the work as quite good so inspired to push on and will do now that xmas and etc is done. Cheers David
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Jan 16, 2017 11:06:46 GMT
haha.....It's ok David, you're not alone in metric vs imperial or even number sizes....I guess I'm in the lucky group having first learnt imperial but then learnt metric as we converted to decimal back in the early 70's. I was very young still so picked up both fairly easily. Funny thing is although I convert to metric for getting a visual idea on a given small size I use imperial for larger sizes when talking in feet....perhaps I'm just a bit weird... Pete Hi Pete And we buy plywood 4 x 8 foot sheet and 9 mil thick! D
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kipford
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Post by kipford on Mar 21, 2017 7:31:38 GMT
David Not sure if you are interested but Western Steam are advertising a complete 5"g Aspinall boiler in stock.
Regards
Dave
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Mar 21, 2017 19:37:42 GMT
David Not sure if you are interested but Western Steam are advertising a complete 5"g Aspinall boiler in stock. Regards Dave Many thanks for that, must be a cancellation!! I happen to have all the copper for the boiler so will be able to go in with a bit of bargaining power. Of cousre that is to assume that I get that far. Cheer me for progress, I am really working on it and will report progress, promise! Cheers David
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weary
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Post by weary on Mar 21, 2017 23:25:13 GMT
The Western Steam Boiler is indeed a cancelled order. I think that you will find that the asking price is £2507.
Note/Edit: Price altered after I checked my email.
Regards, Phil
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Mar 23, 2017 19:07:19 GMT
The Western Steam Boiler is indeed a cancelled order. I think that you will find that the asking price is £2700. Regards, Phil WOW!!!!!! David
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 23, 2017 22:21:55 GMT
Hi David,
I think you would do well to buy Helen's boiler, and sell your boiler kit seperately - or do a part exchange with Helen for same.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by Roger on Mar 24, 2017 7:16:26 GMT
The Western Steam Boiler is indeed a cancelled order. I think that you will find that the asking price is £2700. Regards, Phil WOW!!!!!! David Hi David, Don't underestimate the cost of things like Silver Solder. I spent over £300 on that alone, and you can see how frugally it was used. If you flood areas like most people do, you can say goodbye to double that. I know some builders have a massive private supply of the old Cadmium based Silver Solder, so it's ok for them to ladle it on, it costs them next to nothing. Also bear in mind that the joints need to be a closer fit than those builders having Cadmium based Silver Solders are used to. Cadmium turns out to be added for the purpose of making it fill better. You can certainly make good joints with the new stuff, but it won't bridge gaps and form as large a fillet as the old stuff. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough to make life a little more difficult. I don't want to put you off making your own boiler, but you need to be aware that it's still going to be expensive.
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Post by builder01 on Mar 24, 2017 12:51:43 GMT
The Western Steam Boiler is indeed a cancelled order. I think that you will find that the asking price is £2700. Regards, Phil WOW!!!!!! David I assume your astonishment is at how low that price is. That is a pretty good deal. I would take that!
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Mar 24, 2017 16:49:12 GMT
Yes, my surprise is the effect of inflatiuon. When I was a kid an icecream cone was 5 cents for a single and 10c for a double. Even in Spain last week, 2 boules were 3 euros 50, that is 50 times more expensive. But yes you are correct, not a bad deal, think I might put my number on that! Thanks. David
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