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Post by GWR 101 on Nov 14, 2014 18:35:58 GMT
Sorry Roger they are tapered, its more like 3 degrees (cue Hagley).  Don't know if it's any help DC but I have just looked at my drawings and the wheel detail is on sheet 5 and my wheels are to the dimensions as shown, what few of them there are. My drawing shows a 0.375" tread width and a 0.062" flange width giving a total width of 0.437" (that is not including the 0.062" raised boss), I have checked my clubs requirements and they are basically in line with these sizes, namely 0.062" flange width at the top and 0.125" at the intersection to the tread and a total wheel width of NOT LESS than 0.4065. As Roger has pointed out the tread has a 3 degree taper and the flange inside face has a 20 degree taper although on this size with the intersecting radii its hardly noticeable. I hope this is of some help, I am sure there are much wiser and more experienced contributors on this forum who will offer additional advice if you require it. Regards Paul |
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Post by Roger on Nov 14, 2014 19:17:12 GMT
I must get my eyes recalibrated...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 19:30:00 GMT
Have we made an eye-balls up ??---------The 3 degrees hmm ??.....No, nothing springs to mind for that one !!  ------- Why not pop along to the Urmston Society where one of the lads can give you some "Hands-on" help rather than trying to understand our scribblings on the ether ?/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.udmes.co.uk/ --------------- |
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Post by GWR 101 on Nov 14, 2014 19:37:01 GMT
No problem Roger after all in that distance it's only 19 thou..... sorry 482 microns. And it's good that you raised it as I am sure DC would agree, I am machining 5" gauge steel wheels at the moment so wheel profiles are top of my agenda. Regards Paul. |
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dc309
Seasoned Member
Posts: 146 
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Post by dc309 on Nov 14, 2014 23:14:36 GMT
Sorry Roger they are tapered, its more like 3 degrees (cue Hagley). Don't know if it's any help DC but I have just looked at my drawings and the wheel detail is on sheet 5 and my wheels are to the dimensions as shown, what few of them there are. My drawing shows a 0.375" tread width and a 0.062" flange width giving a total width of 0.437" (that is not including the 0.062" raised boss), I have checked my clubs requirements and they are basically in line with these sizes, namely 0.062" flange width at the top and 0.125" at the intersection to the tread and a total wheel width of NOT LESS than 0.4065. As Roger has pointed out the tread has a 3 degree taper and the flange inside face has a 20 degree taper although on this size with the intersecting radii its hardly noticeable. I hope this is of some help, I am sure there are much wiser and more experienced contributors on this forum who will offer additional advice if you require it. Regards Paul Hi Paul, Is it possible that you could post a picture of your drawing? The drawing I have for the wheels is as below  What difference do the tapers make and how necessary are they?  Regards, Dan |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 23:24:41 GMT
Hi Dan
tapers keep the loco self centered on the track, without the loco will wander from side to side even on straight sections of track, it also keeps the loco more stable when negotiating curves. As a rule wheel flanges shouldn't touch the track, they are a last resort...it's the taper that keeps the train stable on the track.
Pete
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Nov 14, 2014 23:32:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 23:52:24 GMT
Hi Dan tapers keep the loco self centered on the track, without the loco will wander from side to side even on straight sections of track, it also keeps the loco more stable when negotiating curves. As a rule wheel flanges shouldn't touch the track, they are a last resort...it's the taper that keeps the train stable on the track. Pete ------------- It's the COMBINATION of tapered wheel tread sitting on a canted-in rail that gives the required effect.....( and it's the cast steel CHAIR that has the taper within it's shape that achieves this)....If you only have one of those two elements then you'll end up with a line-contact, which is great for minimal rolling resistance-- but no good for power transmission...... |
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Post by GWR 101 on Nov 15, 2014 0:07:21 GMT
Hi Dan I can post it if you like but it has got exactly the same dimensions as yours, no more and no less. The additional dimensions tapers etc. I got from other sources, I am afraid there are one or two instances where the drawings require a bit of additional information. Very rarely are there any tolerances but as you are making mating parts then this is considered not a major problem ! Regards Paul
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Post by GWR 101 on Nov 15, 2014 0:12:01 GMT
Julian.....Wonderful, Bakers valve gear and ground level track, and is that a Juliet 1 in the opening shot of the second part, can't wait to see mine in steam. If it wasn't so late I am tempted to open the workshop up and press on, don't know what the neighbours would think. Many thanks regards Paul
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 0:12:25 GMT
My Juliet2 is exactly the same. Good info about the taper ... I would have followed the plan as well.  Cheers Tom |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 0:21:02 GMT
That taper is only viable if the rail that you run on is inclined as well.................Check your club for more info about their track if I was you....Kinver track IS canted in at 2 degrees.....
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Nov 15, 2014 0:28:54 GMT
hi paul,
the loco in LT maroon in the above youtube clip is my first loco a heavily modified don young Railmotor. the other smaller loco is the Juliet which is one of the best Juliet's ive seen especially in performance and appearance.
cheers,
julian
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Post by GWR 101 on Nov 15, 2014 0:53:34 GMT
Julian, many thanks. Regards Paul
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 8:57:34 GMT
This might help explain the situation a bit better.............Note the }--- 1 in 20 angle...(which is 2.86 degrees)..>>>>>>>>>>>  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 9:23:30 GMT
Here's what it looks like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  |
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Nov 15, 2014 11:18:28 GMT
Oh you have one as well, Mine came from the Radstock line plucked out of a mass of brambles with nuts rusted on. The curves tell of an older model!!
You could ask the club if they ever considered running a grinding truck round the track set to 2 degrees.
No it is full size practice on curved track which is prone to ridges forming where one wheel catches up with the other and digs in.
The Mid Hants were sold some straightened curved track when they extended to Alton! Talk about a rough ride!! Similar to being in the coach
behind a 1501 on the last train of the day!!!
2 degrees on all my wheels!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 11:30:01 GMT
HI DAVE------ At Kinver, our sleepers have a 2 degree angled slot milled in on the top of the plastic sleepers.... The flat-bottomed rail rail is clamped directly onto that.......Yes, that's an earlier chair..
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 16, 2014 9:46:20 GMT
Rugby does not have any cant to it's rail, nor do we have any issue's with tapered wheels.
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Post by GWR 101 on Nov 16, 2014 10:38:40 GMT
Ed, glad you have mentioned that (not that I doubt Alan's view) as I am half way through machining some steel drivers truck wheels with 3 degrees of taper and I am not sure we have any cant on the rails at the club site, I will certainly check on Tuesday. Regards Paul
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Don't know if it's any help DC but I have just looked at my drawings and the wheel detail is on sheet 5 and my wheels are to the dimensions as shown, what few of them there are. My drawing shows a 0.375" tread width and a 0.062" flange width giving a total width of 0.437" (that is not including the 0.062" raised boss), I have checked my clubs requirements and they are basically in line with these sizes, namely 0.062" flange width at the top and 0.125" at the intersection to the tread and a total wheel width of NOT LESS than 0.4065. As Roger has pointed out the tread has a 3 degree taper and the flange inside face has a 20 degree taper although on this size with the intersecting radii its hardly noticeable. I hope this is of some help, I am sure there are much wiser and more experienced contributors on this forum who will offer additional advice if you require it. Regards Paul 
------- Why not pop along to the Urmston Society where one of the lads can give you some "Hands-on" help rather than trying to understand our scribblings on the ether ?/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
What difference do the tapers make and how necessary are they?
