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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 20:19:45 GMT
Well, a bit more clean up as I am still waiting for supplies. I did get a bite of the elephant done, and a first for me. I needed 25 5-40 nuts, and no local supplier had them, so I made some. They aren't perfect, and I need to grind a better profile on the cut off tool, but 25 nuts they are. Cheers Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 11:13:48 GMT
Just a quick update. Later today or tomorrow I am taking the frame over to fellow enthusiast's automotive shop, and I am going to give it a quick blast in the sand basting cabinet to clean it up a bit. Then a couple of coats of etching primer.
I also really need to sit down and think about which engine I am going to do. I am leaning toward the fist one, as delivered, since I think it was all black, and I am a really bad painter. (I know, just plain lazy)
Cheers
Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 12:41:19 GMT
Well, I am almost over the bout of pneumonia that I just went through so life (and engine building) can get back to normal.
After closer inspection, what I thought was ready to paint, wasn't, so I need to do some more work on the frame to get it ready.
The words and music arrived and I am rather disappointed with the quality of them for what I paid. I will try to scan them all and make them more readable.
The castings I was waiting for have also arrived from a different UK source and I am pleased with them as well as the reverser gears I received.
So, with any luck, progress will be made in the coming days.
Cheers
Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 15:04:29 GMT
Taking into account that I know very little about steam locomotives in general and the Britannia in particular, were there any versions that stuck out from others? I have done much reading and searching, but I can't see anything. Did I miss something?
Cheers
Tom
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Post by silverfox on Nov 23, 2014 15:22:25 GMT
Metalchips,
My first engine was a LBSC Brit. did a lot of research on the differences and for my sins got all the relevant ME out of the Library and rligously typed all the build articles word for word!!! ( Still have them ) PM me if you need any info
Ron
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Andrew C
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 447
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Post by Andrew C on Nov 23, 2014 17:32:39 GMT
Taking into account that I know very little about steam locomotives in general and the Britannia in particular, were there any versions that stuck out from others? I have done much reading and searching, but I can't see anything. Did I miss something? Cheers Tom HI Tom a good source is the book 'Locomotives in detail Riddles Class6/7 standard pacifics' by David Clark ( ISBN 0-7110-3177-0) There are subtle differences in a lot of the engines form when they were first built But the two main obvious are the group of 10 that had the BR1d tender (the tender with the curved top) and the pair that did not have smoke deflectors but Westinghouse air break equipment 700047 which was never named and 70044 which eventually had the deflectors and the name Earl Haig. David clark's book will explain all. There is also here www.davidheyscollection.com/page91.htm which lists all the changes. Regards, Andrew
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 19:27:55 GMT
Thanks for the links and replies.
Ron, I did a trial and it looks like I will be able to scan and change the contrast to make the pages more readable. Thank You for your offer and I will keep it in mind if any of my pages are unreadable.
Andrew, I have just ordered that book and I have bookmarked the link so I have a lot of reading to do.
Thanks Again gentleman.
Cheers
Tom
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Post by Jim on Nov 23, 2014 20:41:07 GMT
Hi Tom, The book Andrew mention's is excellent and well worth getting as is 'The Book of the Britannia Pacifics' by Richard Derry, Irwell Press Ltd., If it hasn't already been mentioned John's site www.britanniabuilder.com/ is a great source of information. John has also worked on the restoration of Oliver Cromwell and has links to an incredible collection of photos of Britannias under restoration. I've almost worn the link out Jim
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 22:51:14 GMT
Hi Jim,
I have a link to John's site and that is keeping me busy reading. I found the book you mentioned, but it is way out of my price range at the moment due to only being available "over there" and the conversion rate is a tad steep at the moment. I will keep an eye out for a local copy though.
Cheers
Tom
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 12:25:03 GMT
Plodding along with getting the frame ready to paint. I did a bit of investigating and found that both pistons were stuck in the cylinders. When I got them apart and had a look, this is what I found ... Is that carbon string beings used as a piston ring? If so, does it go off with age or can it be revitalized? By the look of the piston, it needs a bit of polishing as well. Cheers, Tom
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 30, 2014 12:41:12 GMT
Does look the piston has been scraping a little. It looks like Graphite packing in there. You can't use piston rings unless you've got iron cylinders
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 13:26:06 GMT
Sorry, I am not up on all the terminology yet. Is that type of packing still available? Could I do a new piston and fit Viton O-rings?
I know I need to remove the packing to polish the piston ... can I reuse this packing?
This is all new territory for me.
Cheers
Tom
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 30, 2014 16:15:34 GMT
Yes you can still buy it I think, not as good as the old stuff though. You could make new pistons and fit O rings, many people do. I don't think you'll be able to reuse the packing, I don't think you'll get it out in a usable state. Julian is the man to guide you, I avoid bronze cylinders like the plague, always using iron cylinders and rings on my engine.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 16:54:44 GMT
Iron cylinders are my other option. I am not all that pleased with the machining on the ones I have and I see that Blackgates have them at a reasonable cost if I can't find a pair under a bench around here.
Cheers
Tom
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,812
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Post by uuu on Nov 30, 2014 17:19:04 GMT
.... You can't use piston rings unless you've got iron cylinders Well, Joan is not the only one choosing materials that differ from what we perceive as normal. I have a friend building a Speedy with yellow cylinders, aluminium pistons and cast iron rings. We shall see how he gets on. It will be a while yet. Wilf
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 17:39:16 GMT
Yes, that piston has been scraping at some time, which means the bores will need to be checked for wear and ovality....Don't try and re-use packing that is as old as that.....The graphited yarn packing can still be obtained commercially...That's a typical LBSC set-up for the beginner of the time..One option as mentioned is to just use new pistons fitted with O rings..This has been proven to work ok...... Personally I'd opt for Iron ( Block, piston and rings ) as it does have that free graphite in it's structure which helps with emergency lubrication.........But if costs are a real factor then your Bronze piston with o-ring is the way to go these days....
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 30, 2014 18:04:36 GMT
Iron is harder than bronze or gunmetal, the rings will wear away the bore.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 18:37:06 GMT
I think Hagley is meaning the fix might be new pistons with the Viton oring. I have a couple of dozen of them on hand so I might try that route.
I have also e-mailed Blackgates to see what the postage would be on a complete cast iron set.
A question here ... If I go the cast iron route and make new cylinders, could I make the liners of cast iron as well for the valves?
Cheers
Tom
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Post by joanlluch on Nov 30, 2014 19:25:31 GMT
I am not at that yet but there is still another option that I think has been tried recently. It's PTFE rings on the Pistons. I think John (Baggo) has used them for piston valves, possibly Roger as well.
However, it is not clear to me whether PTFE has been used as well on the main Pistons. Roger suggested to place o-rings underneath the PTFE rings to provide the a spring effect to the otherwise rigid PTFE
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Post by Roger on Nov 30, 2014 19:46:15 GMT
I don't think you can use Viton 'O' rings, the temperatures are too high. You can buy PTFE seals with an 'O' ring underneath them. To be honest, that's probably just as easy to make yourself if you can't find a standard size. You'll probably have to make a split piston to use that sort of seal because I can't see you'll be able to get the seal over the end of a grooved piston. That's not to say that you can't make a PTFE piston ring backed up by one or more 'O' rings underneath. You'd be able to fit that into a groove.
I'm not sure I agree that Cast Iron is Harder than Bronze, that's not how it feels when you machine it. It's bearing properties are very different though.
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