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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 10, 2019 20:10:36 GMT
Hi Ed I found this reference to a 'Stroudley Cab Window' in an old publication. Not necessarily from a Terrier but it may be relevant. From other photos there are eight screws fitted from inside the cab, ie round-head with slot. On the outside there is a corresponding dome which may be a tapped insert or might just be the end of the screw with a rounded profile. It doesn't appear to have a screwdriver slot though. I would imagine that the three screws inserted from the outside on 'Boxhill' and spaced between the others, is a later mod when the eight 'screw ends' in this case seem to be finished off flush or the holes filled.
What I have done with mine is tap the outer glass retainer 12BA with clearance holes in the inner retainer, the screws will be finished to length with the ends rounded to suit. Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 9, 2019 22:46:30 GMT
..... I have been thinking of having the whole roof removable for driving, but the convenient join down the centre could be an advantage. I shall have to think about it. Seeing yours with the roof removed may help me decide. Hi Ed Regarding your roof, I think it might be possible to leave it in place in 7 1/4" gauge. It will depend how close to the roof your boiler fittings are and whether you can reach them easily. If not, the riveted strap (yet to be fitted ) at the midway point is an ideal break point for a removable rear half.
However the spectacle plate will have to be at least partly removable for firing purposes, the most convenient point to make the joint is not too far above the rear cab boxes. You can probably work out where the firehole should be on the photos even though the boiler isn't fitted at the moment.
The following photos are from the drivers viewpoint. Apologies for the distorted images, due to a close-up lens and having no wiggle room to get behind the camera..!
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 3, 2019 23:23:41 GMT
Hi Ed
I hope you get over your cold symptoms soon, our family have had similar but thankfully quite low key. Doesn't do much for your motivation either - well that's one of my many excuses anyway...
I made my cab in much the same masochistic way as did Mr Stroudley, angled corner reinforcement with flush or round head rivets as required. Of course you won't see the flush rivets when painted but those in the bunker area are very obvious (unless you want to keep it full of coal). Also, don't forget to make the bunker back plate, on mine I had a devil of a job forming the quite tight radius at to top of this.
As for the roof, it has some interesting curves which you will have to get right else there will be comments..! Using your super Tormach, producing a male former and beating copper to suit is probably the quickest way whilst making an accurate female former will give a better external finish. However if you want to use standard brass or steel then you might need to change your tack. My brass roof was formed from three pieces, the largest forming the main roof curve and the other two 'let in' fore and aft to form the tighter curves. This was silver soldered then dressed to shape. Which ever way you go it may take a bit of effort to get right...
Of course Roger would simply machine both sides from a slab of brass...
Just a further consideration, in 5" gauge it will be necessary to have a 'half roof' or lifting section to allow access for firing/driving. Is this required in 7 1/4" gauge too?
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 3, 2019 12:29:59 GMT
The steam-loving clergy are only too true to life. A former Bishop of Guildford (now active in retirement on a preserved railway not far from you!) used to mutter to me during meetings things like, "Saw a Black Five at Woking this morning.....bet you're jealous!" Malcolm Hi Malcolm This may be more common than supposed, indeed in our club I wonder how many of the membership realise that they have a retired Reverend in their midst? You wouldn't know it to look at him, especially when helping construct the new club building in the pouring rain on the dark, freezing cold days about this time two years ago. A very practical chap with it seems just about every bit of kit you might need to build an extension to your home (by yourself). Nor would you know in general conversation, as his Faith is never aimed at converting the heathens, even when the language from one who has hit his thumb with a hammer may be a lot worse than 'Oh Dear me..' I arrived at the club one sunny Sunday by motorcycle, my fairly old BMW R75/5; he was interested and there followed a short conversation about old and classic motorcycles . Later I found out that he was a Velocette owner with at least one (it may have been two) overhead camshaft machines. That somewhat trumped my other bike, a much later Norton Inter. As a model engineer his skills are to be envied. His current project, a large traction engine, is nearing completion and look forward to seeing it in action. I know not what it is but I'm sure someone will recognise it from the photo, taken at Harrogate Show 2014. At most club meetings I try to pin back by ears and listen. It always amazes me what diverse things people have done in their lives and the encyclopaedic knowledge shared between them. Also, stories (maybe just slightly exaggerated at times, especially by the full-size loco guys) of days gone by and the characters involved are very entertaining to most over tea and sandwiches at lunch. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 2, 2019 0:06:09 GMT
Hi Bob
Watching with interest. Have you seen the 'stainless iron' discs that some folk use on induction hobs so as to allow them to use their favourite non-magnetic pots and pans? A thin disc which gets VERY hot and then transfers the heat (very inefficiently) by conduction/radiation to the pan above. There is no doubt that thin steel sheet will heat up fairly quickly and this may be acceptable for soft soldering but would it be fast enough for silver soldering I wonder?
From my experience with Raydyne RF induction heating equipment in the early 1970's considerable RF output was required to heat metals to red heat and above, certainly I remember one of the smaller machines had an output of 15kW. The RF inductors were water cooled and usually made from square section thick walled copper tubing. Its a long time ago now but I recall that success was all to do with getting the coupling correct, a bit of a black art...
Regarding the temperature rating of ceramic hobs, there are direct gas-fired versions available so it would seem that they must be able to withstand red heat..?
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Dec 29, 2018 12:27:42 GMT
If the swarf comes off cleanly in long spirals its free cutting, if it doesn't, it isn't! Are you sure you haven't got that the wrong way round? Surely the idea of 'free cutting' is to make sure it chips when you use tools with a chip breaker. If you get long stringers of swarf, I'd say that wasn't free cutting. Its funny how you can drift through your life without appreciating the proper meaning of something. Without having given it any thought at all I had always equated free-cutting with easily-machineable. Not necessarily the same thing... The older I get the more I realise how little I know.... From my youthful toolroom days I remember a chipbreaker groove being a fundamental feature built into every large lathe tool. Generally on most steels this would have the effect of tightly curling the swarf at the tool until it broke into lengths due to its own weight, or else when the cut ended. Of course the tightly curled swarf took up less space around the machine bed and was easier to handle too. I suspect all on here have experienced turning certain aluminium alloys at high speed when the tool produced a single continuous, un-coiled ribbon. Now that can be quite exciting..!
But free-cutting materials, ie those that don't form long continuous spirals, obviously have an important part to play when considering automated machine tools and production processes. Seasons Greetings and I hope the New Year is good to us all. Jim S.
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Post by Jim Scott on Dec 8, 2018 23:15:21 GMT
It does remind me of a device we used to use to cut cables we thought, but were not sure, were dead. It was like a small guillotine which clamped round the cable and had a breech block for a blank cartridge which when fired drove the top blade down and cut the cable. Hi Richard Cutting potentially live power cables with a guillotine sounds like a very 'hairy' thing to do. Have you witnessed a 'live' cut? I would imagine that if it was multi-cored or armour plated the bang would have been a bit louder than the firing of the cartridge! This brings back memories of cutting very much larger winch cables (or more correctly the polypropylene-type connection bridles) using explosives. Its not something that often gets captured on film but the following from BP's video library shows how a winch cable can be safely jettisoned whilst still under load. The requirement was to disconnect (in a predetermined sequence) pairs of cables connected to dockside winches which were controlling the float out of the 44,000 ton jacket for the Magnus production platform in April 1982. www.bpvideolibrary.com/record/6The relevant sequence is from 8 min and 6 seconds to 8 min 30 secs. It was indeed a privilege to play a minuscule part in such magnificent project. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Dec 8, 2018 9:49:54 GMT
Hi Alan Thanks for posting the link. Everyone should read this..... Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Dec 1, 2018 21:16:45 GMT
Hi Malcolm
I'm enjoying your description of your endeavours (I don't know where folk get the time to do this). I especially commend you on the quality of your photographs which are invariably well lit and correctly focussed. Note to self: must do better.
Talking of CI rings in a gunmetal bores, I can confirm that 61962 (Eddy) once told me that he had used this combination in the dim and distant past without a disaster occurring..? Having said that, I'm no fan of this combination either, for all the reasons already stated.
That looks like an excellent boiler from Western Steam, but I have to correct your statement that it is TIG welded. Nothing wrong with TIG-welding copper but it looks like a superb example of silver-soldering to me..!
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 30, 2018 10:14:09 GMT
Hi Ed
It was worth the extra effort....!
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 27, 2018 22:08:48 GMT
What I did yesterday in fact...
One of my ex work colleagues was a bit of a BSA fan. From memory he had a old Bantam when he was a young man then after a short period with a 500cc Vincent Comet he rebuilt a BSA Sloper to a pretty good standard. He always hankered after a Morgan three-wheeler and one did eventually arrive (in bits), but it proved too big a rebuild and so was swapped for a mid-1930's BSA three-wheeler. Needing a co-pilot (that would be me then), we had a great time over very many years doing on and off-road trials and hill climbs. The three-wheeler was very interesting to drive for the uninitiated, being front wheel drive and having the accelerator and brake pedals transposed..! This continued with decreasing regularity almost up to his death when in his 80's, some six years ago. Three BSA three-wheelers, Beamish Trophy Trial Circa 1990
At some point during this period he had also acquired another BSA as a 'barn find' and spent a considerable amount of time and money on restoring it to not immaculate but nevertheless very acceptable condition. This car was a 1936 BSA 'Scout' Coupe, 1000cc, three-speed, front wheel drive, two-seater. A pretty looking car, traditionally built with chassis and ash framing, it often took the place of the three-wheeler on the wetter or more sedate rallies. It wasn't unknown to be used for the occasional trip out to a country pub as well.
1936 BSA 'Scout' Coupe, April 2018
For the last 6 years I have looked after the BSA on behalf of the family, who didn't want to sell it but had no space to keep it. Generally not a problem but this couldn't go on forever, given that it was being used less and less frequently. Garage space considerations and the fact that I'm not as agile as I was has led to the reluctant conclusion that the car will have to be moved on and so arrangements are in progress to sell by auction. So yesterday I reversed the old lady out into the street and carefully drove her onto the car trailer. The end of an era perhaps but maybe a degree of relief at the lifting off my shoulders the responsibility for its continued maintenance. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 23, 2018 23:45:41 GMT
Regarding the works plate on Boxhill - be prepared to eat your hats, or please come up with a good explanation. This is the photo I took of Boxhill in the NRM - comments please! Hi Ed Guilty of lack of care and attention M'Lud, I've started at the peak and I'm working around the rim..! I have unearthed one of my very early printed photos of Boxhill which clearly shows the makers plate background as dark brown as per your photo. Whether this was typical of the rest of the class is open to conjecture though. I know that those on Waddon and Stepney are blue and on every other photo I have I can't distinguish dark blue from dark brown due to the poor lighting. Also, photos of an immaculate Boxhill taken at Clapham circa mid 1960's and available to view online do little to suggest the colour is dark brown rather then dark blue: www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/12796550753plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Mainline-Steam/i-6tvb2tC/Awww.westonlangford.com/media/photos/110859.jpgThere is also a very good zoomable photo of Boxhill outdoors at the NRM York: collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co205737/london-brighton-south-coast-railway-locomotive-boxhill-steam-locomotiveOnce again the background colour isn't blindingly obvious. Given that the detailed livery sheet for Boxhill produced by Bob Shepherd also indicates both plates having a dark blue background the evidence in favour of blue seemed quite strong. Unless we can find a written description somewhere I think its a case of 'you pays your money and takes your choice'. Mine is dark blue... Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 22, 2018 10:13:35 GMT
............... Engraving is a very tricky operation because the stock has to be absolutely flat (within half thou) and the depth of cut makes a huge difference so once one is happy with depth the tool cannot be taken out of the collet. ................I will now have a go at the larger Number plates, but being more visible require even more care. ................Incidentally although I have read that the work plates had a blue background, the ones on Boxhill ate Improved Engine Green! Hi Ed You should be very pleased with your final result.
Glad you were able to confirm that engraving brass was worth the effort. My Bro-in-Law reckoned that the burrs raised by the tool were greatly reduced and that machining in general was much sweeter. Also, when the line width is being set in one pass by the engraver, an increase in depth depth of just 0.001" makes a perceptible difference in the width. You can see this if you look carefully at the ovals on my makers plates as posted earlier.
The number plates should be relatively easier to machine due to the increased distance between the individual elements but as they are one of the more eye-catching and prominent items they really have to be good..!
The background colour for both makers and number plates on all photos I have of Terriers in IEG livery (including Boxhill) is blue. You look to have the correct shade on your photos, as Julian says Revell 52 enamel seems to be the best match. However, Fenchurch in umber livery has dark brown backgrounds, might I be not the only one to mix up things like that..? Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 18, 2018 0:18:32 GMT
Hi Ron The easiest way I found on my PC is: 1. In Imgur, select the required image (links will be listed to right) 2. Move cursor down to BBCode (second from bottom) and click the blue 'copy' button, turning the link green. 3. Go to the required open 'reply' box in MECH thread. 4. Place cursor where the photo is required and right click to reveal dropdown menu. Click 'paste' Typical photo info minus enclosing brackets img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://i.imgur.com/zTxzQMQ.jpg" 5. Select 'Preview' to display the photo in the reply.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 17, 2018 23:39:05 GMT
It seems that Diane omitted the full stop on her plates which made 'WORKS' central so there is another variation. I want to get on now with bigger things - these plates have taken up too many hours already. Hi Ed Before you move on from the makers plates I would like to clear up the mystery of the full stop. In fact if you zoom Diane Carney's .pdf file to x4 you can see that the full stop is in fact there. It is the case that it is too small to see at actual size and certainly doesn't show when printed. I might make a small pinprick in the appropriate place on each plate to satisfy those those who habitually carry a magnifying glass. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 12, 2018 22:09:06 GMT
Hi David There is no doubt that this process is effective and you should be able to see the action immediately on a piece of steel placed in a hot saturated solution of potassium alum sulphate. However, you might also have noticed that practically all of the references refer to removing broken taps. This is because the solution penetrates to the bottom of the tap via the flutes and so the process works on the length of the tap from top to bottom. Moreover, because of the flutes it works at the thread interface at both cutting and trailing edges. Often the tap is just partially dissolved before it becomes slack in the hole allowing the remains to be poked out. Consider a broken stud, broken off level with the surface. The only bit exposed to the alum solution is the end of the stud, therefore although the process will work it is only acting on a small area. You might find that it takes a considerable time to dissolve the whole stud this way. Drilling the largest hole possible through each stud without damaging the threads will help speed things up considerably, but at some risk of accidentally damaging said threads. If you need to save the original threads this combination of drilling and dissolving may be the only satisfactory way forward, finally cleaning up afterwards with a plug tap. I hesitate to present the 'best way' but personally I would opt for a drilling jig and if space permits drilling and re-tapping to a larger size then fitting dual diameter studs. Others will no doubt suggest more/better ways. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 11, 2018 22:28:56 GMT
Does anyone have any idea what the thickness of the large number plate is on the full size engine? Ed
I don't know what the full size dimension is but for reference, in 5" gauge, the number plates seem to be standardised at 0.048" thick.
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 11, 2018 20:38:59 GMT
Hi Ed Regarding your LBSC 'No 7'. Diane Carney's rendition can be seen in this 1875 Makers Plate as supplied to Julian some years ago. I would suggest that DC must have the full numeral font available if she was able to offer every Terrier number plate. Although she no longer manufactures plates I was indebted to her for providing a comprehensive set of artwork for 'Earlswood' for a very modest sum. Etched Makers Plate for 'Stepney' by Diane Carney Photo: Julian Atkins
I made a reasonable stab at etching the number plates in 5" gauge using John Baguley's method but the makers plates defeated me. 'Proper' photo-etching seemed the only way forward until my Bro-in-Law said he might like to have a go on his Seig CNC mill. He found it difficult, especially in relation to line widths when using tapered engraving cutters, as the line width varies with cutter depth.
Anyway, after first doing the easier number plates he produced the makers plates shown below. They are not perfect but you have to bear in mind that these plates are only 0.556" x 0.344 x 0.020" thick. One comment he made which may be helpful is that he found much better results were obtained when using engraving brass.
Jim S
CNC Machined Makers Plate for Earlswood - C Cochran
Finished Makers Plates 'Earlswood'
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 5, 2018 21:51:40 GMT
Hi Roger
If anyone doubts the usefulness of the TIG welding process let them consider how they would make up this ashpan otherwise. Maybe it is possible to do an Origami job, or simple folds silver-soldered, or even flanged and riveted, but none would be as elegant a solution as that you have chosen. Excellent work...
I think there is a general perception that TIG welding is a bit esoteric, but in fact it is considerably easier than oxy-acetylene, manual metal arc (MMA - 'stick' welding) or metal-inert gas (MIG) welding for delicate parts. You do need a steady hand and the ability to hand feed a filler wire (same as gas welding), but given this it is in a class of its own.
You mentioned melting through the joint in places and possible use of metal heatsinks. Copper is often used as a backing material, principally because it conducts the heat away rapidly and it won't easily melt into your weld pool. Close fitting backings also control any burn through as well as hindering free atmospheric access to the back of the weld, leaving a cleaner appearance.
Welding short sections is very useful method of controlling distortion. Also, if your inverter has the facility for pulse welding do try it. A series of overlapping spots can allow a continuous weld at a lower total heat input which means less distortion. Same idea as the 'jewelry' spot welders mentioned some months ago but with the arc swapping continuously between a high and very low power setting.
Good to see your continuing progress with Speedy, wish I could manage half as much..!
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 2, 2018 21:54:45 GMT
This is and absolute joy, you are so lucky to have an interest you can share with your children. Sadly, mine are not interested in anything practical or mechanical which makes it all the more pleasing to see what you're doing. Long may it continue! Hi Roger My daughter could name every major part of a steam loco when she was five years old, my son had no interest at all. While both are now reasonable competent at DIY and fixing old cars etc neither had any inclination to follow Dad's hobby, as even then there were too many other distractions. But now I have two grandsons and both are mad keen on trains of any sort. Translating this interest into mechanical ability may yet prove impossible but the elder lad Robert (9) has access to my workshop and has used my lathe, mill and bandsaw (under supervision) to do small projects. We're lucky in that our Club Sec has a keen interest in promoting 'young engineers' and has a small group of youngsters whom she jollies along. This sustains their interest and they have generally been accepted and included into club life. As Pete (smallbrother) says, there are even more distractions these days as they get older eg electronic devices, football, girls, etc. and most of Robert's schoolmates have no concept of how things are actually made. It does make him keep his head down though, akin perhaps to not admitting that you were a trainspotter in the 1950's. Steve, its great to see the videos. I hope their interest continues well into the future, but even if it doesn't, the seeds are sown, they will return...! Jim S
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