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Post by Jim Scott on Nov 20, 2021 13:41:23 GMT
Hi Darren One of our club members completed his build earlier this year after many years in the making. Named Princess Victoria, the link below shows the first run under steam. www.youtube.com/watch?v=elfTlfI6NUYThe only issues were the water feed to the RH injector (you can see a jury rigged pipe over the tender) and a mechanical failure of the regulator handle (removed and effected by means of a small shifting spanner!)
Dave very kindly allowed both myself and our club treasurer to put in a few laps with this lovely locomotive, a pleasure indeed...
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Mar 5, 2021 13:56:21 GMT
Hi Roger
I agree that nobody is going to get rich by making injectors. My suggestion was really aimed at ensuring that any commercial manufacturing would be done to the same standard as your prototypes to ensure that they perform as designed. After all it is your name that will be bandied about if it doesn't work! I think the gentleman we have in mind would certainly be capable of this and as Andy says it would fit neatly into his own portfolio and manufacturing techniques.
Of course he may wish to stay with his own designs but might be persuaded that a more basic model (only in terms of non-scale body) might be worth producing for the undoubted benefit of the wider model engineering fraternity.
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Mar 5, 2021 10:28:44 GMT
Quote
"At some point, I might decide to make batches of the cones for sale, but that's probably the only commercial interest I would have".
Hi Roger
The availability of 'one piece' cones would certainly entice many more model engineers to make their own injectors. I will pre-order my two now...!
No matter how altruistic you are there will always be someone somewhere prepared to make money at your expense. Maybe you should control this by allowing a very competent young person who is well versed in the manufacture of high quality scale components to manufacture and market them on your behalf? It could bring a very welcome supply of high quality injectors to the market in both scale and commercial simpler designs.
This fascinating injector story has been running for over half a year now and has been compulsive reading. I've learned much and its even provided birthday present suggestions for my family - books by Bob Branson and D A G Brown.
Looking forward to the next adventures....
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Feb 26, 2021 11:42:34 GMT
David They are very beautifully made models and a joy to see. On the same table and also with a Silver award was the 5"g LNER V2 built by TSMEE Club Treasurer Ian Spencer. This certainly is a working engine and it is a great privilege to be allowed to occasionally drive it. The attached YouTube clip was taken on a very windy December day in 2018 during the early steam testing with Ian driving his model (and sometimes not..!) www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0JeD0TTPjgSome folk are (understandably) extremely precious about allowing others to drive the wonderful creations. We are fortunate in having a number of members who encourage even the juniors to 'have a go' after suitable instruction. There is pleasure to be had by seeing your model being driven by someone else you know.... I'm looking forward to seeing Rogers's loco in steam, even if this requires a holiday in the 'deep south'. I know it will look great and perform well and there won't be enough time to talk about it. Cheers Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Feb 17, 2021 0:24:59 GMT
Hi Dazza Just to add to the list of possible remedies... A useful method of easing oversize threads is to use a hand thread chaser of the correct form and pitch in conjunction with a tool rest which should be set as close to the work as possible. This requires a VERY slow spindle speed to do it under power but pulling the spindle/chuck around by hand can give equally good results. With careful manipulation your tapered portion can be eased until a mating nut fits just as required..! External hand chasers can be occasionally found for sale by some commercial tap and die retailers and on various auction sites. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 19, 2021 22:59:34 GMT
Today I had a touch of Déjà vu....
I doubt whether this will make the UK National TV News but fellow motorcyclists will remember the destruction caused by fire at the British National Motorcycle Museum in 2003. For those interested in the contents there is a short video on YouTube: There were some really rare motorcycles on display, I hope at least some were saved. Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 2, 2021 20:09:06 GMT
Hi David,
I am somewhat astonished to learn that it is indeed a Mercer Type 2 and that I have been labouring under a miscomprehension all these years! The kit was bought by an ex-colleague who intended it to be something to maintain his spirits in the final few months of his life. Unfortunately his illness was progressing more quickly than anticipated and I was invited to complete his 'Wilesco' traction engine before it was too late.. Although bought new it was now a box of parts with missing documentation. However the assembly was very straightforward and I'm pleased to say he had the pleasure of seeing it steamed on his kitchen table a couple of times before the inevitable.
The model then stayed with his family for about seven years, sitting in a perspex display case. Two years ago his son asked me if I would like to have it as a keepsake so it now resides in my workshop. Eventually it will be passed on to my grandson, who is also a budding model engineer. He is now aged 12 so I hope some day I'll be able to say, "Rob, one day all this will be yours..."
Many thanks
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 1, 2021 16:26:16 GMT
I was given a Wilesco traction engine for my 11 birthday, must have cost my Dad half a weeks wages in the mid 70's if not more. Still got it and it's weathered the years well Guy Hi Guy This is a much younger Wilesco model that I assembled from a kit for an elderly friend who was playing out his last days. I remember the addition of the ceramic gas burner made a significant improvement to the steaming. I recall the total cost was somewhere around £270. This was around 10 years ago and eventually it came back to me via his family. A reasonable model, not a toy; well made and nicely painted. It takes up space in my workshop but what the heck...! Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Jan 1, 2021 13:47:04 GMT
Best Wishes for 2021 from me also to all the members of this forum, especially those from my own Society and those I have had the pleasure to meet personally.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Dec 25, 2020 22:04:55 GMT
Hi Helmut Thanks for posting the link, it is well worth a look. Hi David Just a bit more historical background to add to Alan's post. I first saw the full size replica Adler in the museum at Nuremberg in 1972 on one of our epic motorcycle trips across the 'Channel'. I learnt later that it had been seriously damaged in a fire but was rebuilt and is I believe still operating at the Nuremberg Museum site: www.dbmuseum.de/museum_en/informationen/nuremberg_history-2613172The original Adler was built by Robert Stephenson and partners at the South Street and Forth Bank Works at Newcastle upon Tyne in 1835. Some 150 years after this I had the privilege of being shown around some of the surviving old works buildings - they positively reeked of history.... Not relevant I know but I was born less than a Kilometer (as the bird flies) from the Forth Bank Works but on the other side of the River Tyne. Good luck with your project.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Sept 19, 2020 19:51:08 GMT
When I worked on a certain Class of BR diesel locomotives (in the 1990’s), we were briefed that if a locomotive suffered an engine room fire, we were not to enter the engine room until the area had been made safe. I recall that this was because certain seals in the engine’s air intake system were “Viton”, that if heated above a certain temperature, released Hydrofluoric Acid that was very hazardous to human skin. I have no other knowledge of Viton these days, maybe this is no longer valid, but it’s something I’ve always remembered.... Cheers Don Hi Don In the past I have used Viton o-rings on experimental laboratory equipment, including vacuum furnaces. The potential risk for Hydrofluoric Acid burns due to overheating in this application was noted but the risk was regarded as relatively small, even though we pushed the temperature rating at times. However, where we really took great care was when HF was used as an etchant in the Metallurgy Lab. Knowing the danger of accidental acid burns and having the appropriate first aid treatment available (Calcium Gluoconate Gel) was essential, but what really stuck in my mind was not to use glass bottles or dishes. HF seriously dissolves glass....! The UK HSE have published info regarding fluorelastomers in relation to car fires which makes interesting reading. Cheers
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on Sept 18, 2020 10:26:30 GMT
Brian Allan Wallace's design is a very elegant improvement - and I note it has an oil reservoir....
For comparison I have attached a couple of photos of LBSC's original axle pump design for Maid of Kent published in Model Engineer circa 1948. The first shows the pump layout which was pretty conventional for its time. The second shows the difficulties he had in accommodating the pump into the overall design, where there is no direct drive available from an axle. However the rocking lever with floating pivot must be regarded as adequate given the number of MoK's built over the years. Bought as something to play with whilst building my own loco, an early failure was the fracture of the rocking lever across its centre bearing. This allowed the end of the eccentric drive rod to drop into the track bed, literally catapulting the loco off the track. Luckily I was moving quite slowly and as the loco dismounted from the raised track at a grassy area no serious damage was caused. Gave me a bit of fright though...!
It is thought that a contributory factor in the failure was increased loading due to lack of lubrication of the stainless steel ram working in a bronze bore. Unlike the drawing above, at some point previously the ram had been modified with an o-ring at the working end so not even water lubrication was present.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Sept 14, 2020 20:53:42 GMT
Side loads are an issue if you don't have adequate lubrication, so I've made a decent sized reservoir to feed the ram. If you only oil the outside of the ram at the start of the run, it's not really giving the bearing a reasonable chance of a long life. It ought to be possible to have a smaller pump if you have effective Superheaters. Roger
I haven't seen much in the way of comment on water pump lubrication and I can’t recall a design that incorporates an oil reservoir but it sounds like a good idea. As both you and Andy say, side loads could be appreciable on a compact axle pump arrangement and lack of lubrication could cause a costly failure. In fact this was probably a contributory factor in a mechanical failure of my Maid of Kent which resulted in the loco being derailed - but that's another story...
So everyone, what is the current practice, is it just an initial squirt of lubricating oil at the off? If so, are there any issues with the oil being wiped off by the soft packing or ‘o’-ring seal or washed out by water leakage? Is there any evidence that very small amounts oil could get into the boiler and if so does it pose a problem?
Regarding superheaters, replacing the rather poor originals in my very old Maid of Kent with radiant ones significantly reduced (almost halved) the water consumption.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Aug 18, 2020 22:43:03 GMT
............... To be honest, I don't know why tracks don't use the same track circuit system used on full size railways. Maybe they have welded ties, that would make it impossible. However, on any other setup where you can isolate track sections, it seems such an obvious and easy thing to do............... Hi Roger
As you rightly say, track-circuiting is the standard way of determining the positions of trains on a railway and providing that just one wheelset is bridging the rails then its presence is detected. However the effort required to achieve this is not normally justified on most club tracks hence the use of discreet detectors (proximity, magnetic, infra red, ultrasonic, mechanical treadle switches, etc.) to indicate the start and finish of a section.
Tim
Another variation of switching is used on our club track. This employs a short (125mm) insulated section of rail carrying 12v which is shorted to 0V by the first wheelset of the oncoming train, thus energising the section relay. This relay is latched until tripped by a similar track switch beyond the end of the section.
All of these switching systems mentioned have pros and cons and it is usually the personal preference of the system designer as to which arrangement is used. However, I’m sure most can be made reliable enough even for very busy club tracks.
The main shortcoming of this method of defining sections is that there is no way to guarantee that all of the train has actually left the section - unless wheel counters are used.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Jun 28, 2020 20:57:44 GMT
I understand that 'Gladstone' at the NRM is still fitted with one, although there seems to have been quite extensive on-line discussion regarding whether air or water was the working fluid. Gladstone's has a maximum speed marking of 55mph. How fast can a 'Terrier' go? It seems to have been patent no. 384/1875 of 7th June 1875 'Indicating Speed of Steam Engines' There is a comment in the book 'Portrait of the Terriers' by Handel Kardas where he describes Terriers working the London Bridge portion of the LBSC express 'Newhaven Continental' boat train. This usually consisted of two or three coaches and a mail van to be delivered to East Croydon to connect with the 'Continental'. The returning express would drop off these coaches again at East Croydon for their return journey to London Bridge. Regular engines were Martello on the 'down' run and Thames on the 'up'. Apparently Thames would often run at 60 mph on this section, which was booked at 17 minutes to cover 10.25 miles start to stop. This timing was only marginally improved by the modern electric service in later years.
Jim S
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Post by Jim Scott on Jun 20, 2020 23:35:10 GMT
John My astonishment continues unabated...... There are usually two reactions when folk realise that someone is building a model similar to their own but to a much higher standard. Either they are galvanised into action to strive even harder to produce something to the best of their ability or else they throw their meagre efforts into the scrap bin and start again. I will pursue the former course of action whilst hopefully seeing an occasional photo of how good it could have been. Please keep us updated with your progress and photos to drool over. Respecting your wish not to publish photos of documents, plans, etc. I hope you don't mind me including a photo of your own model frames here for the benefit of those who haven't looked at your OneDrive folder. Thanks again for allowing this information to be viewed, it is a real treasure trove. Ed has already commented that had this info been previously accessible it would have been invaluable to those of us who started their builds many decades ago. Regards Jim S 5" Gauge Terrier Frames by John Bentley
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Post by Jim Scott on Jun 12, 2020 9:00:01 GMT
Hello John and welcome to the MECH Forum. Many thanks for sharing your photographic record of some of the original Terrier drawings. I'm intrigued as to how you were able to access and photograph them so comprehensively. They are a great original reference as well as as being of significant historical interest. I have spent some time browsing through them and have downloaded one or two of particular interest. As many drawings have been photographed in part as well as complete folk will need to work out which photos are best suited to their needs. If you have any further Terrier related stuff it will be well received on this forum, in your own thread if needs be. Cheers Jim Scott (Earlswood 83)
The full link to share John's OneDrive folder is: (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Av-PnPD3NUIziAczEwhvrCkiED9L?e=ulofUk) Note: You will need to copy the address between the brackets and paste it into your browser.
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Post by Jim Scott on May 22, 2020 13:32:49 GMT
Gentlemen 'Boxhill' isn't always the most reliable example but its the nearest to me... This is the best photo I have of the stocking tops sorry stanchion tops. They don't seem excessively wide to me.
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on May 21, 2020 18:21:07 GMT
Sorry Ed, bad wording on my part. I don't think the width at the stanchion top does change.
I had considered using strip of the correct width and forming the stanchion bend afterwards but after due consideration I used wider strip and machined it to incorporate the bend. I was assuming that during your N/C machining you will also machine-in this bend thus the comment about wider strip. Sorry for the confusion.
Jim
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Post by Jim Scott on May 20, 2020 11:02:08 GMT
Ed
Many thanks for the sketches and photos. Its impossible to determine the detail of construction from the G/A and your info makes it very clear. I will have to think about the pump/crosshead connection though, as this part is to Martin Evans 5" gauge design leaves very little room to make an adequate mechanical connection. The cylinders on the 5" model are also inclined at 1 in 11 as per full size.
You know, riveting can be very therapeutic (providing you keep some distance between the hammer and your digits) and is adequately strong. Personally I would stay away from glue of any sort. I knew Roger would suggest machining your cab opening edgings on your mill...! This a a great method but as you say there is a lot of waste if you machine it from plate. However, if you could get nickel silver bar a little oversize, say 12mm square or a heavy angle section, it may be possible to bend it to the approximate shape before machining all over. It is effectively an offset TEE section but watch out for the extra width where the cab stanchions locate. Alternatively, maybe a oversize fabrication with minimal machining back to finished size?
Its worth considering this as I know how much time and effort it took me to get them right.
Jim
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