gwrfan
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 456
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Post by gwrfan on Mar 10, 2021 21:17:08 GMT
Question to the collective wisdom What is the name of that product that you heat in a saucepan and pour into pipe/tubing for bending purposes and can be melted out at how water temperature and reused ?
It's called 'Woods Metal'. I've just managed to find a small quantity today for bending my own copper tube. It melts at about 70 degrees. There are some suppliers in the UK that will sell you a kilo for avout £40 or more, but I had someone contact me who has a small quantity for much less. If you want, drop me a Message on this site and I'll try to put you in touch. Geoff
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Post by GeorgeRay on Mar 10, 2021 21:23:56 GMT
Used to be marketed under the name Cerrobend.
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,907
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Post by JonL on Mar 11, 2021 19:16:15 GMT
Question to the collective wisdom What is the name of that product that you heat in a saucepan and pour into pipe/tubing for bending purposes and can be melted out at how water temperature and reused ?
It's called 'Woods Metal'. I've just managed to find a small quantity today for bending my own copper tube. It melts at about 70 degrees. There are some suppliers in the UK that will sell you a kilo for avout £40 or more, but I had someone contact me who has a small quantity for much less. If you want, drop me a Message on this site and I'll try to put you in touch. Geoff Forgive me if this is considered rude, but if it wouldn't sour relations with your contact I would certainly like to purchase some too. Obviously if this is overstepping the mark I respectfully retract the request!
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 11, 2021 22:32:28 GMT
Question to the collective wisdom What is the name of that product that you heat in a saucepan and pour into pipe/tubing for bending purposes and can be melted out at how water temperature and reused ?
It's called 'Woods Metal'. I've just managed to find a small quantity today for bending my own copper tube. It melts at about 70 degrees. There are some suppliers in the UK that will sell you a kilo for avout £40 or more, but I had someone contact me who has a small quantity for much less. If you want, drop me a Message on this site and I'll try to put you in touch. Geoff Thanks Geoff, I am contacting some local suppliers today.
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Post by Roger on Mar 12, 2021 8:37:30 GMT
I'll be interested to see how you get on with this. I've got some and went to the trouble of making a little arrangement for filling the pipe in question with Wood's Metal. I didn't like the way it bent, and it's a faff to get all of it out so you can reclaim it and Silver Solder the ends. My conclusion was that it just wasn't worth the effort, I could get a better result with a simple bender. Others may have more success. Maybe it's good for larger section thin walled pipes, but for small stuff I didn't like it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 9:59:24 GMT
I hadn't heard of 'woods metal' so I looked it up, seems like a possible contender for shaping tube but it does seem to be pretty hazardous stuff... perhaps extreme caution is advised when in use? I'll probably still try it out though... Pete
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,719
Member is Online
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Post by mbrown on Mar 12, 2021 10:58:55 GMT
I tried some Woods metal years ago for pipe bending. I found it quite impossible to get it to go down a 1/8" pipe as the surface tension was too great. By the time I had got even a little into the pipe, I had spilt most of my stock of Woods metal over the bench and it was effectively impossible to reclaim.
Malcolm
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Post by chris vine on Mar 12, 2021 13:26:41 GMT
There were two types of Cerro metal: Cerrobend was for filling pipes etc and bending. Cerrotru was for holding delicate parts while machining them. The example I knew of this was holding turbine/compressor blades while broaching the roots - at the Rolls Royce Leavesden factory, Watford.
I am wondering if the stuff didn't bend, then it might have been the other variety - Cerrotru...
Chris.
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 693
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Post by oldnorton on Mar 12, 2021 13:57:08 GMT
I could get the Woods metal down an 1/8" pipe, but I preheated the pipes with a gas flame so that the metal did not solidify when it went it. Difficult to heat the pipe to just 100 deg or so - did a practice with an IR thermometer.
Thin oil down the pipes before putting the Woods in. Comes out nicely with a gas flame played over the tube.
I compared the bends I could get with 1/8" and 5/32" tubing, with a wall 0.018" for the 1/8", and 0.028" for the 5/32". I could see a collapse of the 5/32 without Woods around a 5/16 roller and with Woods it was better. But this is at the extreme. The conclusion was that I could get as good a bend without around 11/16 rollers, but the bender had to have a fully supporting roller face, and the tube had to be annealed (and reannealed for repeats or corrections).
Where the Woods was essential was bending some 7/32" and 0.014" wall pipe - ridiculously thin! and worth the faff to get about 1" radius.
I did have a disaster when a PVC push on cap came loose at the bottom of a vertical 28" length. As it oozed off (because of the preheated pipe) a fine jet of molten metal sprayed three feet out across the workshop and my legs. It was a very fine spray. I realised that the pressure at the bottom of a 28" column would have been quite high (10-15 psi). The metal is still embedded in my cotton boiler suit as it flowed into the fibres before cooling. After that lesson I used stoppered silicone tube ends.
Norm
Edit: I have looked back to my notes and corrected the text for the thickness of the 1/8" tube, and referred to tests with 5/32 tube rather than 3/16 and 1/4 earlier trials.
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 12, 2021 20:50:41 GMT
Comrades, thank you for your replies and the input is valuable. At this time I do not have a project for the Woods metal, just to add to my stock so it is on hand for when and if required. I bought a kilogram yesterday from a foundry here in Brisbane for $40 delivered.
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 14, 2021 21:39:36 GMT
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 15, 2021 20:56:11 GMT
This is the video of the double headed trip. We put more on the hook behind the camera wagon. Next time we will do this in the afternoon with the shade over the railway for better even light. The railway is still a works in progress but I am having break from it and hope to finish the loco build before pushing on in the garden with stage 2 and 3. www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwX0D6em3bo
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Post by Oily Rag on Apr 9, 2021 1:42:59 GMT
Progress on the coal fired loco, CAD drawings and then the metal work follows. New tooling for fine metric thread cutting as I intend to banish the dreadful button dies and ME threads from my life. Pic is M5 x 0.5 being cut. Main steam mount in LG2 Bronze. All one piece. Also the lubricator was made. Wilson's book mentions the oil hole as 1.00mm or smaller. That defines nothing so I measured MAM's Roundhouse one and it was 0.45 -0.50 mm so I will try 0.45mm , it is easy to enlarge if required. More M5 x 0.5 threads for the boiler back head fittings in LG2
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Post by mugbuilder on Apr 10, 2021 0:40:11 GMT
This is the video of the double headed trip. We put more on the hook behind the camera wagon. Next time we will do this in the afternoon with the shade over the railway for better even light. The railway is still a works in progress but I am having break from it and hope to finish the loco build before pushing on in the garden with stage 2 and 3. www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwX0D6em3bo What a fabulous little railway. The scenery and work that has gone into it is wonderfull. Regards, Barry
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Post by Roger on Apr 10, 2021 8:49:27 GMT
Lovely job Dazza, that's the way to do it. I especially like the sacrificial location peg, that's an excellent idea. The thread cutting tool looks neat too. The tool looks like it uses the same arrangement we used to have for Form tools back in the old days at General Motors. The form was created on a cylinder, and the face was just ground back to when you needed to sharpen it.
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Post by Oily Rag on Apr 10, 2021 21:04:35 GMT
This is the video of the double headed trip. We put more on the hook behind the camera wagon. Next time we will do this in the afternoon with the shade over the railway for better even light. The railway is still a works in progress but I am having break from it and hope to finish the loco build before pushing on in the garden with stage 2 and 3. www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwX0D6em3bo What a fabulous little railway. The scenery and work that has gone into it is wonderfull. Regards, Barry
Thanks Barry.
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Post by Oily Rag on Apr 10, 2021 21:08:39 GMT
Lovely job Dazza, that's the way to do it. I especially like the sacrificial location peg, that's an excellent idea. The thread cutting tool looks neat too. The tool looks like it uses the same arrangement we used to have for Form tools back in the old days at General Motors. The form was created on a cylinder, and the face was just ground back to when you needed to sharpen it. Thanks Roger, I am very pleased with the Kyocera TTX tool and the tips are of excellent quality. They each have three cutting edges, I bought a small fortune of them and they should last my life time of small threads. All was inspired by you.
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Post by Oily Rag on Apr 11, 2021 21:02:34 GMT
Captain Plod got some hours in the Red Room (World wide headquarters of the Llewellyn Loco Works) over the weekend. The push is on to try to make it to steam tests by the end of this year. Finally got around to sorting out the stainless smoke box door hinge straps getting them brazed into the door's milled grooves, including the in house bespoke made dummy stainless rivets. Then the dart and delicate brazing, using Swiss DT bicycle spokes for the 1.50mm handle material.
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Post by David on Apr 20, 2021 2:42:17 GMT
I hadn't noticed the shape of the threading tool under Roger pointed it out. I looked up Kyocera TTX and see what you mean about the small fortune!
Beautiful work.
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Post by Oily Rag on Apr 21, 2021 0:55:51 GMT
I hadn't noticed the shape of the threading tool under Roger pointed it out. I looked up Kyocera TTX and see what you mean about the small fortune! Beautiful work. The tool was not too bad, $85.00 aud, but the tips are up there, but heck, they are not rubbish and with engineering mates they come very well recommended. They stash I have should last my earthly days and to date I am very pleased with the set up.
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