New Peppercorn A2 “Blue Peter” in 5” Gauge

[RGR 60130]

60532 at Wilton by reg.rossiter, on Flickr

I have started this thread with the objective of collecting feedback regarding a possible new design of Peppercorn A2 “Blue Peter” in 5” Gauge. Many will have seen the only 5” gauge A2 that I know of, “Pearl Diver” running on various tracks but the drawings have never been marketed as far as I know.

For more years than I care to admit, I have been building the Peppercorn A1 “Sea Eagle” to the Michael Breeze drawings. Those who are familiar with the design will know that Michael was also working on the A2 design (that was never completed) and some variations for the A2 are already shown on the A1 drawings.

I have always liked the look of the A2 and while “Blue Peter” was in the Darlington museum I took the opportunity of taking many photographs for a possible future project as well as for my A1.

Recently I was lucky enough to buy an almost complete set of castings and boiler for an A1, so the A2 project took a major step forward because the same castings and boiler can be used for both. The main differences will amount to a smaller diameter set of driving wheels (6’ 2” as opposed to 6’ 8 ½”), shorter main frames, shorter smoke box, different motion and a riveted tender body rather than a welded one.

I am aiming to keep the design fairly basic in line with the A1 design and castings rather than slavishly following works drawings. However, my reference source for the frames will be works drawings to get everything in essentially the right places. I usually draw most parts out in CAD anyway so drawing in full size (12” to the foot) and scaling down for 5” gauge is an easy task, followed by a bit of squeezing and stretching. However, doing this produces lots of oddball dimensions. For a 1 off model it doesn’t matter because the laser / water cutting machine doesn’t care. However, if producing dimensioned drawings for others to follow a certain amount of tweaking is required.

So, getting to the bottom line, if there are any people genuinely interested in building a Peppercorn A2 I will adopt a slightly different approach to the one I would take if building a 1 off.

Please let me know your thoughts

Reg

[jma1009]

Hi Reg,

Taking off my GWR hat, I reckon the Peppercorn Pacifics are the most beautiful looking locos ever.

You have standard commercial parts available for most of the loco.

So why not 'go for it' and get ME interested and run a serial, and at whatever it is now £45 a page you can spin it out over many years like that dreadful 'Emma Victoria' design.

There is a huge LNER following. And ME is crying out for new 5"g loco designs!

Cheers,
Julian

[runner42]

Hi Reg,

a magnificent looking locomotive. If you didn't follow Julian's advice of getting ME to serialise the construction drawings and words and music, how do you intend to disseminate the details to interested parties?

Brian

[RGR 60130]

Well, I never thought I'd see Julian without his GRW hat but obviously miracles do happen!

I wouldn't rule out a possible series in Model Engineer though it will depend upon me remembering to take plenty photos and record a few details now. As I said in my first post, I already have most of the castings so if I'm machining something for the A1 I will avoid having to do the same set-up again and do the A2 castings at the same time. I'm currently doing 3 sets of Cartazzi axle boxes, purely because I had 3 sets of castings.

No one has, as yet, voiced a desire to build an A2 but that's hardly surprising. The decision of what to build next is always one that takes a lot of thought unless fate plays it's hand.

These big Pacifics, especially with 3 cylinders are often seen as a mammoth build but really there aren't that many more components than in, for instance, the ever popular B1 "Springbok". Yes there's another axle, yes there's another cylinder but it's not a great deal extra in terms of money, materials and hours.

So, I'd like to ask you gentlemen of the committee, What are the most important features of a design that sway you in your choice of model?

Personally I like something that presents accurate looking profiles without getting bogged down in detail. Detail, like salt and pepper, can be added to personal taste. Frame stretchers can be simple or reasonably accurate representations - I don't have strong preferences. Wheels should look correct but a slightly different rim isn't the end of the world. If rivets were employed in the original then I like the model to look right and to that end I am a bit of a rivet counter.

What are the thoughts of others?

Reg

[jma1009]

Hi Reg,

With a tender loco on a raised track (and my now bad back) a relatively short tender is a prerequisite. I want to be able to see the backhead and controls easily and the fire and what is happening inside the firebox.

This is one of the reasons I decided to do 'Stepney' in 2011. The LBSCR wagon to go behind is non- RCH standard and relatively short.

That is probably not the answer you wanted!

However if John Heslop and another can win IMLEC with a 5"g LNER P2 then perhaps I am too fussy.

Cheers,
Julian

[RGR 60130]

Hi Julian,

I'm afraid a 6 wheel 3500gall tender never found it's way behind an A2 (unless someone knows better of course!) so there's not much I can do for that requirement.

Maybe it does lead to a requirement for it to be possible to fit extended linkages to the regulator etc. and position injector water valves at the back of the tender to avoid a bit of bending.

Reg

[chris vine]

Or radio control from a scale wagon at the back of the train so you can admire your wonderful handiwork!!

Chris.

[RGR 60130]

How time flies. It's been over a year since I updated this thread and there has been a little bit of slow progress. Recently I have been sorting through my Peppercorn A1 works drawings and identifying the ones that are also applicable to the A2. I also placed an order with the NRM for the frame drawings and they have now arrived. These will now be put onto CAD as full size drawings and then they can be shrunk down to 5" gauge size. A fair amount of work to do but it should pay dividends with a design that looks correct.

Reg
Peppercorn A2 Main Frame Works Drawings by reg.rossiter, on Flickr

[Cro]

That's good timing, I just ordered the master pattern for the spring hook brackets!

[dscott]

I went to see her go through Exeter St Davids many years ago, Very impressive, and would look great in 5-inch gauge!
Yes, an ancestor worked for the LNER in the loco works Great Northern Division!

[Jim]

It looks like a great project Reg and bringing an A2 into 5"gauge would be a great addition to the build threads. Looking forward to seeing more on this project.


Jim.

[cplmickey]

I really should make Blue Peter but with so much on the go at the moment I daren't start another project. I had 2 uncles who worked at the Plant and I went to the naming ceremony there (late 60's perhaps?) so the connections are strong. Perhaps when the Baldwin and the 9F are finished I could consider one - retirement looms so time, if not money, should be plentiful.
Ian

[Rex Hanman]

Jun 28, 2017 11:40:37 GMT cplmickey said:

retirement looms so time, if not money, should be plentiful.
Ian

Don't you be;ieve it!!

[jordanleeds]

Wonderful loco and very attractive if I hadn't already committed to building things I would of been interested... I have the full.sized one at work and it's a marvel

[44767]

Reg,

I hope you're carrying on with the A2 even if others can't jump on board. It's a great loco and happens to be the first loco in the UK that I was given a cab ride in- back in 1989, loco and brake van only from Grosmont to Pickering.

[RGR 60130]

Mike,

I will certainly carry on with the project and the CAD drawings in full size are progressing. I'm in Southport this weekend for IMLEC and the only A2 model I know of is due to run tomorrow so I'll be there, camera in hand giving it a good dose of looking at.

Reg

[RGR 60130]

This project is still very much alive though a lot of CAD drawing still needs to be done. Another trip to the NRM will be required before I have all the info I need for the frames. I'm hoping to get the main stretcher components cut before long to pad out an order I have for A1 bits.

The only downside to this project is that I think my P2 (rolling chassis, boiler, castings etc.) will have to go.

Here's the main stretcher drawing

Reg
Peppercorn A2 Main Stay from works drawing by reg.rossiter, on Flickr

[Deleted]

Looking good Reg, I hope you don't part with your P2, you may regret it further down the line, especially once the full size is up and running considering you had a part in her build.

Let me know when you plan to go to York, if it coincides with FS being there (she's just left) and I'm free and can afford the rail fare at that time I may be able to pop up and join you. All my pennies are currently spoken for with a particularly large item for 4472...

Pete

[RGR 60130]

Mar 22, 2019 12:21:31 GMT @greenglade said:

Looking good Reg, I hope you don't part with your P2, you may regret it further down the line, especially once the full size is up and running considering you had a part in her build.

Let me know when you plan to go to York, if it coincides with FS being there (she's just left) and I'm free and can afford the rail fare at that time I may be able to pop up and join you. All my pennies are currently spoken for with a particularly large item for 4472...

Pete

Pete,

It's really about how many projects I have. Having recently turned 59 and looking at my life style, past and present, I wouldn't bet on having any more than 15 years to get everything done I want to (if I'm lucky). A bit morbid but realistic. My A1 needs about another 1200 hours to complete it. This A2 has a boiler but isn't even fully designed yet. My B1 is about 95% complete. The Caprotti Class 5 still needs a new tender. The ex Tony Marchington A3 needs a strip and repaint (if I don't sell it) and finally I need to make a new boiler for my tank engine. On top of that I have 4 cars to tinker with and I still devote a healthy chunk of life to wine, women and song. All in all enough to keep me well and truly occupied so the P2 doesn't really have much chance at all.

I think FS was in the NRM workshop when I was there a couple of weeks ago. Please do let me know if you're coming up and we can have a catch-up.

Reg

[Deleted]

haha... I hear what you are saying my friend, I was 59 two days ago so we are on the same threshold...yes that is a lot of projects which would be impossible to fit in the timescale...I worry if I'll get 4472 finished in time and that's my only build project although I also tinker with the car but only the one, so not too bad...

I will most certainly let you know if/when I next go to York, I do love that place, both the town and the museum.
Pete