Hunslet 5 inch gauge build.

[rrmrd66]

Good Evening to you all.

The next posting of progress on the 5" gauge Don Young Hunslet build.

Apologies for this being a bit disjointed as I seem to have hit various hold ups and deliveries from suppliers have understandably taken several days longer than normal due to the current crisis.

So let us begin with the steam manifold construction.

This is the bottom half of the manifold constructed from the gun metal cast rod ex Reeves and a piece of standard copper pipe. You may recall I have in the past had doubts about my silver soldering techniques and when i look at this close up shot you can see why. (In my defence I think its recently got a lot better. However still not perfect.)

The two small blocks are the "ears" to be soldered on following by drilling and tapping for pressure off-takes for various items.

fullsizeoutput_c03 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

One of the problems with the silver soldering of small items onto larger ones and at the same time trying to encourage the capillary flow of the solder ( by gravity) is holding everything still whilst the flux "boils off" and the solder melts. Roger's tip of placing lots of thick flux on the surfaces and allowing it to dry prior to soldering is a good one (The Tippex trick works as well). However in this case I decided to knock up a mini G clamp. This worked well. What didn't work at all well was I must have quenched the assembly too quickly and managed to crack the flange across the screw holes. So back to square one.

fullsizeoutput_c05 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

You will recall my moan in my last post about the amount of metal that was left over following the flange being turned up (which you pay for from Reeves as part of the castings set), well there was sufficient metal left over to make the bottom half of the manifold from solid and avoiding the soldering of the "ears" onto the manifold body.

Here is the part finished article. Note that I increased the thickness of the flange in case of the previous trouble. The radius in the corner of the ears went badly awry when I think i tried "down" milling into the corner and the cutter picked up. Hence the markings on the of of the flange. The ears were fished by hand so no real harm done and something not to be repeated in future!

fullsizeoutput_c07 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Last post I discussed the removal of the "tongue" on the regulator body as I did not want to drill though fixing holes into the boiler barrel.

I made the plug on top of the regulator thicker that drawing and Loctiteted a 6B stud into it.

fullsizeoutput_c0d by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

A copper disc was then fashioned so that it engaged on the hexagonal plug head. The disc with suitable steam escape holes was in turn clamped to it. This would locate the top of the regulator form sideways movement .  A thin walled spacer was inserted between the disc and the underside of the manifold top limiting and tendency to move vertically ( at least upwards.)

Subsequently Andy Higham has come up with a much more elegant locating method in his refurbishment of his Hunslet. I am jealous. Well done Andy.

The disc btw does sit centrally in the bore. It's the old parallax gremlin again in the photograph.

fullsizeoutput_c0f by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Another wait for something so I next decided to fit the chimney saddle to the smoke box. Here I am cutting a spot face (x4) on the double curvature saddle to enable a 6BA button head screw to fit the saddle to the smokebox passing through to a spacer piece (again wit a double curvature) that will hold the lower portion of he chimney together with its petticoat piece. The chimney is nipped by 2x6BA grub screw in this spacer piece ( hidden for view in this shot) to make sure if doesn't move about. I have a feeling it will make a fine handle that some kind soul may grip one day when I'm not looking. The Alu. discs and M10 stud/nuts are part of the clamping arrangement.

fullsizeoutput_c11 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Back to the boiler and the coaxial super heaters.

Shown here are the outer and inner tubes (x2) together with their complimentary plugs.

fullsizeoutput_c0b by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Next we get to attempting to screw the steam pipe into the regulator body whilst at the same time screwing the other end into the super heater header . This some how seems to contradict  the laws of engineering to my mind, but what the heck!

A large "darning needle" was made from 9mm rod and a suitable radius was turned on the end. This was inserted into the boilers steam pipe and placed until it went into the screwed hole in the bottom of the regulator (3/8" dia).

The steam pipe was then slid along it and the screwed portion of the flange at the left had end was screwed into the boss on the boiler, at the same time screwing the other end into the regulator.

Problem is after having done that there is no way of actually tightening up this joint, so a strip down was again necessary and four flats were milled on to the flange. The flange already had 4 stud hole tapped into its face so the trick was to get it tightened up with the 4 holes equispaced and at 12 o'clock.

Eventually success was achieved , but this is a real B****R.

fullsizeoutput_c09 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Thinking about the logical order of eventually finishing this locomotive  I decide during another lull in the fighting to make the cladding for the cylinders.

Note to anybody about to try and make one of these is to drill and tap the webs of the cylinder casting prior to fitting to the frames and not afterwards.

Drilling 6BA tapping holes hand held in 1/4"thick webs  is not to be recommended as the drill does have a tendency to wander!

Therefor behold my horizontal boring machine.  Never underestimate the usefulness of that little Dremel drill you bought your beloved for Christmas one year to do the electrics on her dolls house.

Yes, i know the drill is upside down on the drill stand. it's meant to be!

fullsizeoutput_c14 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Mission accomplished I am glad to say with no broken drill or taps.

I am still considering whether or not to fit those little triangular spacers to hide the cylinder mounting bolts. Seems a bit unnecessary to me.

fullsizeoutput_c1c by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Yet another mini diversion.

Someone pointed out that should the engine whilst under steam ever end up on it's side or worse inverted there was little to stop the boiler coming out of the frames. The smokebox end is well tied down but the grate end not so well.

Thus a small retaining plate was made to ensure that once in it's correct longitudinal position the boiler was still free to move horizontally but but vertically.

fullsizeoutput_c13 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Finally a few pictures of the connections to the common steam pipe from the super heater header. This is the final shot which I feel will explain the next couple of pictures.

Firstly, note the slight upward angle of the steam pipes into the common manifold. How to get the angles correct for soldering?

fullsizeoutput_c1e by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

This shows how to obtain  the the correct alignment by constructing a soldering jig that locates the 1/2"ME union in the common manifold.

Sensible people would make a jig that did both ends at once. I however only has one spare 5/8" BSCY union onto which to mount the manifold

fullsizeoutput_c16 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

This shows the two coaxial super heater elements joined to the super heater header.

Another note of warning. Don Young suggests that that the angular displacement of the two connecting pipes is 90° (2x45). it is in fact about 96.6°. Both by scaling of the drawing (tut tut) and by dead measuring with rulers and squares etc and a bit of trigonometry.

The first header I made was nearer to 85° plus the header only wanted to tighten up at about 7° past 12 o'clock and you can see that you end up with one pipe much shorter than the other and with a dog leg in it.

I made another and then forgot that in effect it is now "handed" so again it was wrong. However I rescued it by drilling through, turning if round and putting a threaded plug in it.

fullsizeoutput_c18 by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Eventually we arrive at this last shot where everything appears to be in its correct place.

Nest time I will tell you all about getting it to all mate up with the smoke box and the fight to get your hands and spanner into the smoke box door to finish fitting it.

The blast nozzle is placed just to make sure it all fits and there is room for the steam delivery pipe.

fullsizeoutput_c1a by Malcolm HARWOOD, on Flickr

Thank you forbearing with me.

Hope you found it of some interest

Regards and stay safe

Malcolm

[springcrocus]

Lovely work, Malcolm.

One thing I would like to say (as one reluctant silver-solderer to another) is that I never quench a soldered item, or put it in the pickle, until it has cooled enough to pick up with bare hands. I would expect the copper to contract quicker than the solder due to it's higher conductivity and, hence, ability to cool quicker. Could be wrong, though.

Regards, Steve

[rrmrd66]

Hi Steve

You are doubtless correct. Slow cooling down does help.

Amongst the many improvements in my silver soldering technique I feel I have learned over the last two months is as Corporal Jones would say is "don't panic'.

Taking time to do everything in a slow methodical way certainly pays dividends.

Thanks for your interest

Malcolm

[Roger]

Lovely work and great setups as always!

I agree with Steve, I'd never quench something that's Silver Soldered, but let it cool naturally.
I rarely quench anything. About the only times are when hardening Steel, and to remove the scale from annealed Copper. It's pretty brutal on the material so I'd avoid it.

[ngfan]

The main purpose of this note is to thank Malcolm for his efforts in putting these posts together. I'm finding them very useful indeed.


I did wonder whether to use the 4 tiny springs in the balanced valve, rather than DY's single spring.  However the delicateness of the machining required rather frightened me, so I decided to give Don's design a go.  Malcolm was pretty spot in saying that the spring needed to be wound on a mandrel diameter 70% of the ID of the spring, and I made a 0.675" mandrel which worked.  Inspection of purchased compression springs suggested the pitch should be twice the diameter of the wire. I tried this and made a pathetically weak spring.  I then jumped to a pitch 5 times the wire diameter, and this does seem strong enough to move the valve piston with its silicone O ring.  (Of course the proof of the pudding will be in the eating when I try to run my loco!)  I did nearly muck things up though.  I felt I would need 7 turns of the spring, so I made the mandrel long enough for 11 turns to give me plenty of margin for error.  Unfortunately I forgot that when the spring diameter expands after winding, the number of turns drops pro-rata.  Fortunately it left 7 1/2 turns, which was just enough.

I too am a ropey silver solderer, and frequently have to tediously re-work jobs.  (Perhaps one of the problems is that I'm not courageous enough and tend to select too small a burner size.)  Typically I use Easy-flo no2.  For difficult jobs however (large ones, or say soldering stainless steel to gunmetal), I use Tenacity, or a Tenacity-type flux.  It finally struck me that these "difficult" jobs have actually been reliably more successful than my "easy" jobs.  I'm now wondering whether to abandon Easy-flo, and use Tenacity for all my silver soldering jobs.  I know it's said that Tenacity is difficult to remove afterwards, but I don't think I've really had a problem in this respect.

Best regards,
John

[rrmrd66]

Hello John/ngfan

Thanks for your thanks.

The 4x"Pocket springs" appear to be working OK when running on air. I recall somebody saying that the balance piston is also held against the valve case by the steam pressure as well. Thus the spring load needs only to be very light.I sometimes wonder if dear old Don actually worked all this out from first principles or just winged it?

My soldering has taken a turn for the better I am pleased to report.

I only have the one standard size of Sievert burner (No.2941 - 7kW) which I now use in preference to a small portable oxy-gas welding set. I think it is down to technique and not heat.

The biggest piece of advice I can pass on that helped me improve is that what ever you do, DO NOT point the flame, especially the inner hot cone, at the silver solder. I use the "pallet/pallette?" method, like some others, by laying very small piece of silver solder wire 0.7mm dia on the joint I am wanting to solder.

Use plenty of flux. Rogers Tippex tip works well in keeping the liquid solder in the correct place. Utilise gravity if possible. I have a schools chem lab retort stand with tongs to hold things upright and some self closing spring pincers.

Try to heat the larger of the two items you wish to join and "draw" the solder down in to it by allowing the heat to transfer up into the solder at the join. Hope this makes sense.

One last thing. Having everything prepared in advance and take your time. It's not a race.

Happy soldering.

regards

Malcolm

PS Pictures please of your build?

[ngfan]

Hello Malcolm,


I've never posted anything on here with an embedded image.  My attempt at copy and paste failed, so I created an Imgur account. I just hope it puts an image in rather than a hyperlink.


My part built loco is in bits at the moment (spread around various plastic boxes and bags), as I'm about to grit blast and paint the frames.  In front of the frames are wooden dumb buffers and the steel buffing plates.  I've tried hot oil blacking these, on the basis that it will scuff less than paint will.  However it's all rather blotchy.  Perhaps I should stop being a cheapskate, and buy a chemical blacking kit



I quartered the wheel sets using a jig I borrowed from the club, and it went surprisingly well in that the crank pins run true to a thou or so.  I've Loctited both the wheels and the cranks, though I think I will also pin the cranks.  As the whole operation has to be done rather rapidly before the Loctite sets, I cut a steel rod to the exact bac-to-back dimension so that I could quickly push the wheel on to the correct position




I followed (I think) your advice, and made the cylinder cladding and drilled/tapped the fixing holes in the cylinders, prior to mounting the cylinders in the frames.  I initially followed someone else's advice, and Araldited the triangular packing pieces on to the cylinder.  The springiness on the brass cladding promptly ripped them off.  Perhaps I didn't prepare the surface properly prior to Aralditing.  Anyway, they're held on with csk brass screws now.



The photos below so the steamchest and balanced slide valves. One of the balanced valves is in the compressed position, the other has the spring as made, before compression.  As I said, I think it feels strong enough.





I've also just made the axle pump. although I haven't a photo.  I'm a bit dubious of doing without any form of piston packing, so I've fitted a silicone O ring.  My Simplex and Polly Caroline both have O rings on their pumps.  (I'm told LBSC didn't bother with them though.)

Here's hoping the images actually appear in the posting.

Cheers,
John

[ngfan]

Well the images didn't appear in the above post.  I'm using Imgur - can anyone tell me what I did wrong.  I copied the hyperlink from Imgur - it gives a series of "view and edit" options, and I chose the one marked "Linked BBCode (message boards)"

Thanks,

John

[uuu]

Did you just paste the result in the reply, or use the "insert image" option. The former is probably what's needed. When I look at the code under your post (by clicking "quote"), there's the preamble for an image, but no URL.

Wilf

[don9f]

Hi John, I usually access this forum and write posts etc. using an ipad, which does things with imgur differently than with a Windows laptop. When I do use the laptop, and I am viewing the relevant image in imgur, I select “Copy direct link” then go to the forum and just paste that into the “insert image” option of the post.

Don’t know if that will help as I often read of other ways of doing it, but it’s how I do it and it worked from day one.

Cheers Don

[ettingtonliam]

Springcrocus did 'How to post pics' on July 3rd 2017, and this covers the use of Imgur. I follow his notes exactly, and it works.
Important points are to use 'Reply' rather than 'Quick Reply', and to remember , when you've pressed 'Insert Image' to delete ''http://'' from the box before pasting in the address of your picture.

[Roger]

Jun 21, 2020 17:02:06 GMT ngfan said:

Hello Malcolm,


  Perhaps I should stop being a cheapskate, and buy a chemical blacking kit

Cheers,
John

Hi John,
Sadly this won't help. Blotchy finishes are just as much of a problem with a chemical blacking kit. I don't know if hot oil blacking gives more protection from rusting. Chemical blacking on its own provides no protection whatsoever. It's only the dewatering oil that resists rust.

[timb]

Jun 21, 2020 17:07:40 GMT ngfan said:

Well the images didn't appear in the above post.  I'm using Imgur - can anyone tell me what I did wrong.  I copied the hyperlink from Imgur - it gives a series of "view and edit" options, and I chose the one marked "Linked BBCode (message boards)"

Thanks,

John

click on the drop down arrow then click on 'Get share links' to open the share options box.    

click on the COPY button for the BBCode(forums), go to your new post, then right click and select paste to put the picture into your message.

This will paste the URL line into the new post.

If you click on BBCode at the bottom of your new post, then back on Preview you should see your picture.

Add an s, m or l before the .jpeg to get a small, medium or large version of the picture.

[dscott]

I must have your Boilers TWIN!
Mine was done as a part of a batch by Helen and offered for sale.
Lovely Boiler and ready to go except for the regulator.
I have just done the Boiler to Smokebox ring.
This pushed the Myford to its limit and only just fitted even using the slim 4 jaw chuck.

ibb.co/2kBCm2R

In fact I had to put it on the Mill and go round the outside removing 2mm
Alas the rotary table is still out of action.

ibb.co/r3GzHJP

Just one of the jobs that sat waiting for an odd day of carving it out of a square 5/8 plate.

David and Lily.

[rrmrd66]

Hi David

Mine bears the serial number WSME.1377.10.18.H.V.S

Yes. Beautiful workmanship, or should it be workwomanship in these pc days. Anyhow well done to Helen.

Grinding on with the saddle tank at present, which is a challenge.

Pictures and update of build log shortly

Cheers

Malcolm

[dscott]

WSME 1427 03 18 H.V.S. For ours I just went and checked.
CLOSE.

Perhaps If We sit and polish mine they would look better?
Yes most of my projects do have Boilers and several professionally built but lacking in Paperwork.

On the subject of the tank I made a filler former many years ago.
Must take a photo of the tank tomorrow.

David and Lily.

[ngfan]

Hi All,


Thank you for the advice on inserting images from Imgur.  I followed Springcrocus's advice in the posted dated 3rd July 2017 down to the letter.  It was easy and worked well.


For what they are worth, I've edited my original post to include the images.


Thanks also for the comments on chemical blacking.  I think I'll give up on the blacking idea.  I just need to decide whether to paint the buffing plates, or leave then as bare metal and try to keep them well oiled to deter rusting.  (I have successfully hot-oil blacked some link couplings on my slate waggons.  However, they are relatively small. so blotchy areas aren't really noticeable.)

Regards,


John

[builder01]

Thank you for taking the time to learn about adding the images. Things look great! I wish all of the build threads posted had images included instead of just a link.

[rrmrd66]

Hello John/ngfan

Sorry if I am being a bit dim but I don't see the images you refer to.

Are you certain that you uploaded them into your response?

Cheers

Malcolm

[stevep]

I'm seeing them alright, in the posting he made on June 21 at 6:02.