barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878 
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Post by barlowworks on Oct 20, 2020 11:49:37 GMT
Hi Everybody, its been some time since I updated this thread but I've been beavering away in Barlow Works. This entry will conclude the building of the pony truck, another item to tick off the list and put into store. I'm sorry if this entry is a bit long winded but I know how you all like your photos so here goes.
This photo is a trial assembly of the pony truck after I completed the A frame. This is available as a casting but the drawings showed how to fabricate it so that is what I did. It also shows the curved centre support, already made by the previous builder with provision for its fitting. This caused some pondering on my part as the real thing actually has two supports and I wondered if I should reproduce this. I decided on the "life's too short" option as it can not be easily seen when in place.
The drawing showed the bottom of the A frame as being open. This didn't seem like a very strong option so I made it into a box section so it should be a lot stronger.
The ash guards (?) show up on photos as a quite prominent detail. The real things are made from quite thin sheet bolted to the frames, probably an ideal job for the apprentices. I chose to make them from 18 thou nickel silver to give the appearance of thin sheet but they are surprisingly strong when in place.
While in ridiculous detail mode, these are the brackets for the oil feed boxes that lubricate the centering bar....
....and these are the dummy oil feeds, an interesting exercise in milling and Anglo Saxon.
This is the rear stretcher with the rubbing pads fitted and connections for the oil pipes. The rubbing pads were another heart in mouth job on the mill, I still tackle these jobs with a bit of trepidation, expecting to do something stupid and irreparable at any moment. Thanks to the DRO it was a lot easier than it might have been.
Finally, after a painting session I was left with a pony truck kit awaiting assembly.
And this is the completed article.
I'm quite pleased with the oil feed boxes and pipework though how much it will be seen when fitted, I don't know.
I'm quite glad I did the extra work on the spring detail, I think it looks a lot better than a big nut and bolt.
And finally, this beast is next on the list, or at least the chassis.  As usual, first thing will a good clean down and de-greasing and a look at how it compares with the real thing.
All the best
Mike
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2020 16:22:39 GMT
Excellent work Mike, I think you'd be surprised at how much hidden fine detail is visible on a completed model. Even if hidden deep within, a quick overall glimpse of the detail while looking in general at a model really adds to the total realism of said model. Well done sir, your pony truck looks superb.
Pete
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mbrown on Oct 20, 2020 17:44:22 GMT
I think the question of fine detail is partly about the lines of the loco being modelled. A Stirling Single, for instance had amazingly smooth lines and unless the detail is absolutely to scale it will be intrusive. Simply loco has, I think, got that just right. But a Brit is (to use my wife's description of my German loco) "frilly" and leaving the lines too smooth and uncluttered by detail would look quite wrong. I think Pete is absolutely right that the detail shapes the perception of the overall effect.
That's my non-artistic view, anyway!
Malcolm
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Post by Jim on Oct 20, 2020 20:07:49 GMT
I'd agree with you Malcolm, I like to have as many photos of the actual loco as I can find so that those little details you mention can be included. The Britannias went through a series of modifications at various times in their lives and so getting the details including livery changes right for the particular period is for me at least, important in capturing the spirit of your chosen subject, a bit like Terence Cuneo's railway paintings.
Jim
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Post by coniston on Oct 20, 2020 20:59:43 GMT
Just lovely Mike, as the others have said the detail is what sets a model apart from the rest and keeps you coming back for another look to see what the eye missed before.
Chris D
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Oct 20, 2020 22:04:10 GMT
Many thanks gents for your kind words. It will be coming obvious by now that I like my details. It may be that I look at these things from the standpoint of a model maker rather than a model engineer considering my many years modelling in O gauge. Either way, I enjoy adding the details and that must be the main thing, to enjoy what you are doing in the workshop.
All the best
Mike
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Oct 21, 2020 1:38:50 GMT
I love the close to scale stuff and the complete drawings to match.
In fact the closer I looked at photos of the 10 locomotives built to my current sorting out well in advance Winter project, the less rivets were included on the bufferbeams.
These are so much more visable than ponytrucks. Although BR standard ones do need modeling with every part.
Saw a superb version at Doncaster... Yes our last one all the Way from New Zealand.
I am redrawing mine out but the Smokebox looked wrong and left much pondering.
I did a redraw with the rivets with a different spacing. And using this, it suddenly came out right.
I am converting it up from 1" scale to 1 1/16" to the foot and measuring her out in Metric. Mad fool.
Only because the Drawings are hopeless again.
Then many standard parts seem to come in handy.
David and Lily. The castings on the other hand are Superb Thanks GLR.
Yes it is a guess the Locomotive time!!!
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Oct 21, 2020 9:38:35 GMT
Your work is a joy to behold Mike, you can tell how much you enjoy the build by the level of detail you are getting and the quality of the finish. Well done mate, looking forward to see what you get up to on the chassis.
Tim
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Nov 7, 2020 20:31:57 GMT
Hi everybody, just a quick update of recent progress in Barlow Works. I am now onto the main chassis (which I find quite daunting, it sits there and intimidates me), and in keeping with the drawings it is held together with a mixture of 2,4 and 6ba nuts and bolts. The front buffer beam is held on with these substantial angle brackets and 4ba nuts and bolts. On the real chassis there is a large bracket with an angle piece here. The problem is that the existing bracket is riveted to the front buffer beam and as the buffer riveting is pretty much correct I decided to leave it in place.
The 4ba bolts were replaced with countersunk screws and the holes countersunk to match. They were then filled with "Big Boy" high temperature metal filler and sanded flush. I will make a more accurate bracket to go over this complete with prototypical step fixing. The drawing shows the front steps riveted to the footplate which is not correct.
The frame extensions for the pony truck are bolted with custom 2ba bolts to go through the three layers of the frames and the spacer.
I decided to turn the heads into rivets and refit the bolts. They are a bit over scale but I hope they will be a bit less noticeable next to the ash pan.
On the drag beam there are again 4ba bolts like on the front. I decided to leave the existing brackets even though they bare no resemblance to the real thing. They will be behind the water hoses and on my engine a large ATC battery box on the drivers side so will hopefully be buried away under the cab.
I changed the other bolts like I did on the front so I could fit the proper rivet detail.
The other 6ba bolts in the stretchers were also changed and filled so I now have a flat frame that I can add the correct rivet detail too (or at least something like it).
I took apart the front buffers (mainly for my own benefit as I could not remember how they go together).
Everything was given a good clean then the buffer bodies were given a quick blast in the blasting cabinet. Finally the steps and inspection covers were fitted like the ones on the tender.
Various bits from my goodies box were temporarily put in place so I could draw round the outlines for the rivet spacing later. And who can't resist a bit of daydreaming and a look into the future. 
Now that all the goodies are back in the box the next job will be to fabricate the front buffer beam brackets.
All the best and be safe.
Mike
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Post by Cro on Nov 7, 2020 21:59:57 GMT
Mike,
A trick a friend of mine has done on a few of his locos that are like this with the bulky fixings is countersink it like you have and then make a 1mm or similar steel plate with all the detail on that just goes on the outside of the frames. Once fitted and painted you'd never know.
Looks great,
Adam
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,990
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Post by JonL on Nov 7, 2020 22:08:21 GMT
Mike, lovely work, I'm in awe.
Jon
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Nov 7, 2020 22:30:18 GMT
Don't be in awe of me, Nobby, I'm just a humble metal basher that has a thing about details. All I do is try and copy what you get on a good photo.
Mike
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Nov 7, 2020 22:34:49 GMT
Mike, A trick a friend of mine has done on a few of his locos that are like this with the bulky fixings is countersink it like you have and then make a 1mm or similar steel plate with all the detail on that just goes on the outside of the frames. Once fitted and painted you'd never know. Looks great, Adam That's what I will do with the buffer beam brackets. The existing ones are plenty strong enough but just don't look right. Watch this space.
Mike
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Nov 9, 2020 21:57:09 GMT
Hi everybody, I have a query for all you Britannia/9F builders. Are the front steps on the Britannia the same size as on a 9F. The 2 drawings I have show the Britannia steps as 7/8 inch wide and the 9f as 1 1/16 inch. I have looked at photos and they look the same to me. Any thoughts.
Mike
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961
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Post by don9f on Nov 9, 2020 23:53:28 GMT
Hi Mike, I can’t be 100% certain, but this photo of 70000 makes me think the full size width is 12”....1 1/16” in 5” gauge, ie the same as the 9F. Tomorrow I’ll check those on my 9F and compare/count the dimples in the treads, as seen in the photo, as I know mine are to scale, measured off 92214. Cheers Don |
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Nov 10, 2020 6:39:02 GMT
Many thanks Don, that is the conclusion I'm coming too. I was looking at that series of photos yesterday and discovered the one on the other side does not have the plate at the top. I commandeared the living room floor last night and got out the GA which confirms what you say. I could look at these drawings for hours, so much detail. 🤔
Mike
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961
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Post by don9f on Nov 10, 2020 11:45:33 GMT
Hi, I didn’t look at the photo of the fireman’s side until you mentioned it and it looks for some reason that on 70000 the larger piece of “plate” (angle iron) on the driver’s side is some sort of repair maybe?....the 9Fs don’t have that, they are like the fireman’s side, with the top of the step bolted to the gusset above and to the smaller piece of angle that is welded to the gusset fabrication.
Cheers Don
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Nov 22, 2020 16:32:51 GMT
Hi Everybody. More skulduggery from Barlow Works. The corner of the frames behind the buffer beam has a reinforcing gusset as shown below from Britannia. This also incorporates the mounting for the front steps using the plate with the strengthening rib on the front. The Perrier drawings show the front steps riveted to the footplate which is wrong. The proper steps are quite noticeable and can be seen bolted to this gusset below the footplate valance.
These are the gussets I eventually made up brass and silver soldered together, not my favorite occupation. Three of the end plates went on first time but the fourth just wouldn't co-operate needing five attempts to get it right. Needless to say I used up a lot of my supply of Anglo Saxon to finish them. Here they are after a quick blast in the blasting cabinet.
Here they are after a trial fit. They are held on by the buffer body screws on the front and will be held on by slot-less 8ba round head screws to the frames. When seen behind the steps and under the footplate they should be quite convincing and plenty strong enough to hold the steps.
Here they are finally fitted with the slot-less screws plus a row of rivets that are on the prototype.
To say the Britannia frames had a lot of welded components there were still a lot of rivets.
After changing the assembly bolts to countersunk screws and filling the holes last time, that allowed me to incorporate the rivet detail so it looks a bit more like the real thing. I know the ones at the rear are a bit out of scale but I can live with that, they are much better than the 4ba bolt heads that were there in the first place. I don't know how much of this will be seen between the wheel spokes but I'm glad I put it on and much better than big bolt heads.
I think a touch of primer may be in order before I get much further. I think what I may do next are some detailing parts like the steps and the greasing points at the front that I can then store away ready for fitting later.
I must admit I am finding this big lump rather daunting wondering what to do next. Luckily I have quite a few parts that are already complete and just need bolting on but I do find it hard sometimes knowing what to do next without missing something that may be vital later on. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are no words and music for the Perrier/Spink Britannia. I know Doug Hewson did a series but that was about correcting and detailing the Winson Britannia. I do have the copies though and there is some useful information there. Fortunately there are some excellent build threads on here that provide help and inspiration, many thanks guys.
All the best for now and be safe.
Mike
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Post by Jim on Nov 22, 2020 18:23:14 GMT
There is some beautiful detail work there Mike. You're to be congratulated for building such a faithful miniature replica of a great locomotive, I am a bit biased towards Britannias and to be honest I think you're far better off working as you are without 'the words and music' of Spink or Perrier or anyone else.
Stay safe and at least one kangaroo apart social distancing.
Jim.
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Post by dhamblin on Nov 22, 2020 19:37:38 GMT
+1 biased towards Britannia's.
Very impressed by the level of detail you are putting in, it will look like a superb miniature of the class when complete.
Regards,
Dan
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As usual, first thing will a good clean down and de-greasing and a look at how it compares with the real thing.
