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Post by runner42 on Jan 25, 2021 22:33:22 GMT
The blower steam collection is done through an internal system at the backhead and not through the usual external via the manifold system, so the pipe has to be screwed in from the smokebox tubeplate end. This rotational requirement makes it almost impossible with a kink in the blower tube. I don't think DY thought it through enough. Brian  blower collector by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 22:47:30 GMT
Hi Brian
I think you'll find that Don would have stated in his words that this pipe is fitted during the boiler construction. It's much the same for many boilers of this type...'Doncaster' has the same setup...if yours is the same as mine, these internal steam pipes will go to the top front of the boiler a little forward of the dome. There should be an internal bracket/mount that's fitted to the top inside of the barrel with two holes for the steam pipes to pass through a short distance.
Regards
Pete
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Post by coniston on Jan 25, 2021 23:04:06 GMT
Just thinking outside the box a bit, could you ignore the internal blower tube and utilise the outside ejector pipe to run the blower steam into the LH side of the smoke box? It all depends on whether that is only a 'dummy' on the outside or already used for something? It does make the boiler a bit simpler just replacing the blower tube with a solid stay. The blower system is then always easily accessible without recourse to disturbing any boiler mounted fittings. The steam could be taken from another tapping off the manifold. anyway just a thought.
Chris D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 23:47:41 GMT
Ah...sorry I thought you meant the steam/water valves....perhaps the details for both will be together in Don's words?
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Post by runner42 on Jan 31, 2021 23:57:36 GMT
Hi Brian I think you'll find that Don would have stated in his words that this pipe is fitted during the boiler construction. Regards Pete Hi Pete, are you suggesting that the kinked blower tube is screwed into the backhead connection before the backhead is fitted to the boiler, this would work but couldn't be revisited if there was a leak at that connection. If this was considered it doesn't need a screwed connection but could be silver soldered permanently in position. Hi Chris, having the blower tube outside the boiler, would it suffer from the cooling effect and does it cause a hazard to small hands should they touch it? Brian |
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Post by coniston on Feb 1, 2021 8:51:13 GMT
HI Brian, I haven't steamed the A3 myself but as it ran for 30 odd years I think if there was a problem it would have been changed. I don't think there is any more danger for small hands on the blower tube than the boiler itself. The blower tube on my A3 is about 5/16" outside, not re off hand if there is a smaller tube inside this or it is a very thick wall tube.
Chris D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 9:29:32 GMT
Hi Brian
I corrected myself on that with my next post...when I looked at your drawing I thought I was seeing the water/steam valves...not the blower.
As for screwed in blower tubes, on my boiler there currently is no blower tube, there is two threaded bushes either end for me to fit the blower tube later. I believe this is called a 'live' setup. Same as full size, Paul (Southern boilers) did explain to me the method for fitting the tube which I don't have to hand just now. I'm not suggesting you do the same, best talk to your boiler inspector on that one
Regards
Pete
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Post by runner42 on Feb 4, 2021 6:53:23 GMT
I was hoping to show the boiler barrel with the silver soldered inside strap but things didn't go exactly to plan. The first operation went OK, which was to silver solder both sides of the strap, but when I attempted to silver solder the outside of the barrel at the join the silver solder went everywhere except in between the join. I laid the silver solder rod on the join and played the propane torch from inside the barrel with the expectation that the silver solder would wick through to the strap and providing a good closure joint. But the silver solder follows the flux, which in the preheat stage ran down the curvature of the barrel so that's where it resides. The barrel is currently in the pickle ready for another attempt tomorrow.
Having nearly used my existing silver solder stock, I have just undertaken an e-bay purchase of 500g of 45% silver solder, which should allow most of the boiler to be completed.
Brian
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uuu
Elder Statesman
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Post by uuu on Feb 4, 2021 9:04:35 GMT
Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you've successfully soldered the strap to the barrel on both sides, but are left with a trough on the outside, which you now want to fill. I would have thought the overlap between the strap and the barrel is the strong bit. The butt-joint between the two sides will have negligible additional effect, particularly if it's wider than a hair's breadth - it's more cosmetic than functional so you could just leave it.
As always, your boiler inspector would be the judge.
Wilf
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Post by runner42 on Feb 4, 2021 22:04:42 GMT
Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you've successfully soldered the strap to the barrel on both sides, but are left with a trough on the outside, which you now want to fill. I would have thought the overlap between the strap and the barrel is the strong bit. The butt-joint between the two sides will have negligible additional effect, particularly if it's wider than a hair's breadth - it's more cosmetic than functional so you could just leave it. As always, your boiler inspector would be the judge. Wilf Hi Wilf, you are right, it is only cosmetic the silver soldered strap is providing the strength and sealing integrity and the butt joint being only a hair's breadth was probably the reason that the silver solder rod moved away, effectively there was nothing to keep it in position. Brian |
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Post by runner42 on Feb 9, 2021 7:00:34 GMT
I have run into a problem with cutting the hole in the barrel for the steam dome. It requires a 2 3/8" dia hole cut. My approach was to cut a 2" hole using a hole cutter and finish the final 3/8" using the vertical boring bar on my mini mill. Cutting with a hole cutter was a piece of cake. The length of the barrel is just under the length of the table and I have just enough room at each end to clamp the barrel at the bottom and it seems quite rigid. However taking the smallest of cuts causes the barrel to flex and as expected causes the mini mill to cut out. I need to increase the rigidity of the barrel at the top so flexing is almost non existence. Any ideas? Another problem is the shaping of the outer wrapper. My MDF former shows the required negative slant from the front to the backhead, however when forming the wrapper the tendency was for the former to bottom on the copper sheet and therefore the result is the front face of the former is no longer vertical to the copper sheet but bends backwards. Forming in this position results in the negative slant being lost and the top of the wrapper is horizontal, putting the backhead higher than required. I need to clamp the front of wrapper to the front of MDF former so that the two are kept in position and rework the top of the wrapper. The clamping must be very rigid to withstand the hitting of the wrapper and not allow the former to again return to its previous position of bottoming on the copper sheet. Any ideas? Brian  wrapper problem by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 9, 2021 8:10:43 GMT
Regarding the barrel, machine a couple of wooden discs to fit tightly into the barrel at each end, far enpugh in to clear the clamps. Don't clamp directly onto the barrel, cut another 2 thick pieces of wood, curved on the bottom to fit the barrel and flat on top for that purpose. I'd made a cradle for my barrel, a wide flat piece of wood with 2 vertical pieces screwed to it, cut out for the barrel to rest in them. Very useful for doing anything to the boiler without it rolling about
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Post by runner42 on Feb 11, 2021 5:51:04 GMT
Having realised that my mini mill was going to be useless in boring the hole for the steam turret, I decided to revert to enlarging the existing hole by manual means, namely a half round file. As you can imagine the task was protracted and hard work because it was a one handed filing exercise, because the other hand was holding the barrel. It took hours to remove the excess copper. I thought that copper was a soft metal that could be easily filed, but I have re-thought that. Either that or the half round file had seen better days.  barrel3 by Brian Leach, on Flickr I used the steam turret as a gauge for deciding where to file to get it as round as possible and a snug fit for silver soldering.  barrel4 by Brian Leach, on Flickr Having received no suggestions for re-establishing the backward slant on the outer wrapper, I was forced to think for myself LOL. The problem is the front of the wrapper must be kept in alignment with the front of the former and then work on the top face to bring the wrapper down to meet the former. Having realised that I would be establishing a number of rivet holes (5) on the front of the wrapper to affix the wrapper to the barrel and throat plate, I drilled these in position and aligned the former with the front edges of the wrapper and drilled though to the former and stuck pins in the holes. This held the wrapper in position and was able to establish the backward slant at the top. It is still WIP because I have to reform the curves at the top of the wrapper, the front curve is still OK but the transition from front to the backhead still needs a lot of annealing a bashing. Brian |
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Post by runner42 on Feb 11, 2021 5:57:22 GMT
What does DY mean when he says scallop the steam turret to match the boiler barrel?
Brian
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Neale
Part of the e-furniture
5" Black 5 just started
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Post by Neale on Feb 11, 2021 7:36:17 GMT
Take some material off the underside of the flange to fit the slope of the barrel with top of flange horizontal? I'm guessing he is trying to bring the flange down to touch the barrel as much as possible.
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
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Post by oldnorton on Feb 11, 2021 9:39:20 GMT
What does DY mean when he says scallop the steam turret to match the boiler barrel? Brian Scallop = carve out, inward curved shape - a bit like a scallop shell? Brian, it is a compound curve on the underside of the turret. As well as matching the curvature of the boiler it needs a slope to keep the top of the turret parallel to the track when the boiler is erected. You can see the angle from the drawing. |
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Post by runner42 on Feb 11, 2021 22:17:58 GMT
What does DY mean when he says scallop the steam turret to match the boiler barrel? Brian Scallop = carve out, inward curved shape - a bit like a scallop shell? Brian, it is a compound curve on the underside of the turret. As well as matching the curvature of the boiler it needs a slope to keep the top of the turret parallel to the track when the boiler is erected. You can see the angle from the drawing. I am afraid I don't understand. I have altered the design from a fabricated top section by raising the sides of the bottom section and the closure is just a flat disc. However, machining of the bottom section was done in accordance with the drawing (top view in the photo) but the lower drawing depicts another curve that requires more metal than realised from dimensioned drawing. Scalloping is adding metal not removing it?? I realise that the turret needs to be horizontal and the top of the barrel is sloping. Brian  turret query by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by coniston on Feb 11, 2021 22:57:53 GMT
What does DY mean when he says scallop the steam turret to match the boiler barrel? Brian Hi Brian, I think DY is referring to the curve at the bottom of the dome bush that is shown in the bottom view of your drawing. It looks like he intends the dome bush bottom edge to be a constant distance (depth) inside the barrel. I guess this creates less interference with water / steam circulation. Chris D PS Scalloping would normally refer to removal of material rather than addition. |
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Post by runner42 on Feb 12, 2021 6:20:13 GMT
I'm going to ignore the scalloping of the turret, I don't see anything wrong in having the turret sitting in the position shown in the top drawing. I assume that the bottom drawing is in error in so much that the bottom arc has in part been drawn below the bottom face of the turret, which can't be represented in the manner shown. I have got the outer wrapper closer to the finished profile, there is some slight springing in the sides but this will be overcome by a few rivets both front and back. I have silver soldered the throat plate to the boiler barrel. It's in the citric acid bath. This stage is as far as I can proceed, since the BI is required to perform an inspection. Brian  wrapper backhead by Brian Leach, on Flickr  wrapper backhead1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by runner42 on Feb 15, 2021 1:59:20 GMT
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