Don Young's Black 5

[oldnorton]

Hi Brian

Another way to think about transporting a loco is to put it in a box first. The problem with an engine on rails is trying to hold it down and stop it rolling or tipping off.

Make a 12mm ply box with a hinged drop down door at one end. Roll the loco into the box in the workshop. The inside of the box has wooden guides for the wheels, a big metal pin at the back to firmly engage in the loco drawbar socket, and the hinged door lifts to compress the buffers and capture them in sockets to hold it still. Now the loco won't move around in the box.

The box should have two handles each side. You can slide it onto a simple trolley to wheel across the yard and a rachet strap holds it down. Then slide it into the car and strap it again if you have anchor points. At the track you can have friends help lift the box out, or drop the front door and wheel the loco out onto the club loading rails.

Norm

[nonort]

I would make one comment. Please place the box or rails on the passenger side of the vehicle, if for any reason you stop much quicker than you wish. The thought of getting crushed by your latest creation coming through the vehicle at speed is a sight I don't wish to see again, I have unfortunately seen the result of such a mishap.

[runner42]

SHMBO has put the kibosh on my solution and said think again. Well the only other method is to use a trailer,so I am purchasing a small 6 ft x 4 ft one and modifying it to accommodate the locomotive. This has introduced additional problems of where to store the trailer when not in use. The carport has just room for two cars and the driveway narrows to a single car access to the road. So storage will have to be in the back garden somewhere. Things have got more complicated. Giving more thought to how I am going to modify the transport/handling trolley, namely putting the larger wheels on, I will have to attach some jacking points on the vertical spars so that I can jack it up far enough for the wheels to be placed underneath. I tried to lift it by hand and it wouldn't budge.


Brian

[runner42]

Modifying the handling transport frame so that I can move the locomotive and tender out the shed in the open to fire the locomotive for initial testing and secondly to move it so that it can be transported. The modification is to add wheels that are suitable for the grassed terrain which are 150 mm dia solid tyre type. To fit these I have to jack up the handling transport frame and to enable it to be jacked to the height to facilitate fixing these. So I had to modify the handling transport frame to provide jacking points, which consist of a scrap piece of angle affixed to each upright.

Jacking point by Brian Leach, on Flickr

So that the locomotive is secured to the handling transport frame I have used to G clamps one either side to clamp through the driving wheels to the handling transport frame.


locking by Brian Leach, on Flickr

Brian

[stevep]

Mar 11, 2023 9:36:44 GMT oldnorton said:

Hi Brian

Another way to think about transporting a loco is to put it in a box first. SNIP

Norm

I totally agree with Norm - it makes everything so much easier.

You may visit different racks where your transfer arrangements don't work. With a box, you can get assistance and move the box and engine wholesale on to the track, drop down the flap at one end, and wheel the engine straight out onto the track.

[uuu]

It was a while ago, but I remember a visitor to IWMES bringing his loco in an open frame - looked similar to the frame round a generator or water pump. It was easy to lift, because you could grab it in so many places. And it could be inverted with the loco clamped in it - or stood on end - so you could get at all parts for cleaning or maintenance.

Wilf

[mbrown]

Gerry Tull described just such an open frame carrying device for his IoW O2 in one issue of Don Young's LLAS.

It has the advantage of lightness. I made the mistake of building a box for one of my locos that adds so much weight that what was a one-person lift now needs two... But my loco storage space at home needs them to be stacked on top of one another so an open frame wouldn't work for me, alas.

Malcolm

[runner42]

Unfortunately Norm's box solution is impractical for me. The problem lies in producing a box of sufficient strength to accomodate a 5' 8" x 12" footprint. My intention is to have the tender permanently connected to the locomotive so to prevent the need to connect the tender at the steaming bay. It will weigh upwards of 30kgs. Also having produced the box I have to have it at a set height to enable the locomotive and tender to roll off the handling storage frame. If this could be achieved in the shed which available space prevents this the total weight will be approximately 100kgs. I have increased the problem of moving the box and contents across the grass and up a 6" step to the concrete pathway. I have my 3 1/2" gauge Doris locomotive and tender in boxes which is convenient but the weight of the 5" gauge locomotive and tender for a one man lift makes it impractical.

Brian

[steamer5]

Hi Brian,
I have a 2 x frames to transport my locos in, modelled on the one that came with dads loco. They have 10mm dia rod up & over to hold a PVC cover for transport on an open trailer…. Keeps the rain off. In both cases the ends help lock the locos in so they don’t move. My Nigel Gresley (5”) being a tender loco has a hold down between loco & tender, I have a block of wood that slides thru so that when the hold down is tight it pulls every thing down on that and stops any movement. The frames bolt down to the trailer base.
Frames are made from 50x50x3 angle, with 25x3 strip for the rails, …… would have to go measure the rest … oh when I made the frame we didn’t think about were the mid hold down would work…. By chance we got almost right!
Nigel lives on a mobile stand, fixed height….but doesn’t have to cross a lawn, but height wise allows the loco to roll pretty much straight on to the trailer. Toby the Tram lives on a hydraulic lift table, makes life easy.
Hope this makes sense! If you would like a picture let me know

Cheers Kerrin

[Cro]

It does feel like there is some serious over complication going on here.

Following Norms box, this is how I move my Black 5 around in 1 piece, without disconnecting, for Gilling etc..

Untitled by Adam Cro, on Flickr

The loco is hooked into the front on the draw hook compressing buffers slightly. There is a bar (threaded rod M8) that puts pressure on the loco/tender draw bar in the middle and the back of the tender is on the bungee cord to stop it bouncing/rattling. Box is made from 18mm Ply with some 50mm battons on the bottom edges to screw it all together. I can get all the locos into this box without disconnecting them except the Duchess when finished.

Adam

[runner42]

I have fitted the 150 mm dia wheels to the handling/transport frame. What I have realised with fixed wheels that maneuvering of the handling/transport frame is limited to straight line movement and cornering is not possible without some form of intervention like lifting one end and moving it sideways. Lift is just possible at the tender end but the weight of the locomotive at the front end is not. A crow bar like device under the handling/transport frame can achieve some sideways movement but this is not practical on softer grassed areas. So I intend to add a jocky wheel that can be jacked in position when turning movement is required. This needs so thought about design and implementation because the locomotive cannot be removed during this work.

Brian  

[brucevoelkerding]

if you put a single Wheel on one End of your Transport Frame you will significantly reduce the Stability of the Frame. One way to look at it is - consider Lines on the Floor drawn from the CONTACT Points of the Wheels. These are the "Edges" the entire Mass wishes to tip over. Putting a single Wheel on one end changes your current Rectangle into a Triangle. Another Consideration - as you maneuver the Trolley the Lines change when a Swiveling Wheel turns sideways. The important point here is the location of the Wheel CONTACT Points - not the Pivot Axis of the Caster. I mention this, as I have seen it happen. I would suggest qty 2 Pivoting Casters.

Also, shifting with a Crwbar could lead to toppling.

[ettingtonliam]

2 pivoting casters at one end, just like a supermarket trolley! Also foot operated brakes on the wheels.i

[runner42]

Against members concern I pursued with my one jocky wheel as a means of providing articulation of the transport handling frame. The picture shows the result which although not obvious took a fair amount of work to complete. I would like to say that it was successful but as it turns out it is as useful as tits on a bull. It is not robust enough and trying to raise the front of the transport handling frame where the locomotive is situated is too labour intensive. I chose a thread form that is 26 TPI quite fine but it still insufficient with the lever length of the rachet spanner to lift the transport handling frame so that the non articulated wheels are off the ground. The iterim solution is to remove the tender (it's a one man lift just) from the the transport handling frame and position the locomotive at the back which will allow weight to be removed from the jocky wheel and allow articulation to occur. Once in position re-introduce the tender and undertake the tests,

Brian

Jocky wheel by Brian Leach, on Flickr

[runner42]

A lot of work, but not much progress. I begin to wonder if I should continue to try and correct the problems that I am currently facing, namely the Stroudley regulator and associated pipework. After making four  regulators, three Stroudley type one of which incorporated Adam Cro's modification with the PTFE top hats included. This had merit but I couldn't install it in the available space in the steam turrent. The modification moved the rotating disc 1/16" further from the fixed disc and pushing the actuating mechanism further away from the regulator which fouled on the steam turrent body and could not be seated on the two flats that I had introduced as a means of securing the regulator. Modifying DY's design sometimes has hidden consequences. However, the ball valve solution appears to be the answer so that design I am sticking with. 

Everything appeared to be working OK, but one area registered to be a potential problem. The steam transfer tube is a 1/2" dia copper tube and where it connects to the regulator it was by a 1/2" X 26 TPI ME thread cut directly into the coper tube. The copper tube does not have a large wall thickness and because I need to have an assurance that when it is mated with the regulator that it is a steam tight joint so each thread needs to be on the tight side in assembly. This turned out to be counter-productive because the thread cut on the copper tube gave way and sheared off leaving the thread remnant in the regulator. Removing this turned out to be a challenge. So I salvaged the existing steam transfer tube by producing a gun metal threaded end and silver soldered on. This increased the wall thickness at that point which overcame the  possibility of further failure. The threads are at nominal size so that installing the steam transfer tube to the regulator is easily done, that is outside the boiler.


steam transfer tube by Brian Leach, on Flickr

The two areas red circled show the two ME threads that has to be engaged when installing the steam transfer tube. They are different diameters but the same 26 TPI.  The drawing  is dipected in ideal circumstance where both threads are exactly aligned but in reality if the boss on the smoke box tubeplate is not exactly square it throws the lengthy steam transfer tube out of alignment with the regulator, making installation more challenging. The solution is initially to have the regulator floating so it can pick up the thread and after engagement the regulator can be secured. The copper tube provides that flexibility. 

Getting to the purpose of this post, what medium is best used on the threads to ensure a steam tight connection? The connection to the regulator appears to be a critical area and bearing in mind that it should enable the future demating if required.

Brian 

[flyingfox]

Hi Brian, in that situation, I would use loctite 572, which I have used for many years, works well, breaks open with out problems. Please understand this is a lotite sealant, not an adhesive.
Regards, another Brian B