Don Young's Black 5

[sapper]

abby
The sockets just slide about and are held in place by the weight of the loco as described above.
On a separate issue has any one ever managed to make up the pipework from the back of the cylinder block to the blast nozzel as shown on Don's drawings? I came to the conclusion that it was impossible to assemble it even if you did manage to bend the pipes and thread the ends.
Sapper

[44767]

I have just looked at the bogie on my Black 5. It appears that the beam does foul the horn gudes a little. When there is no load on the bogie the axle box sits about 1/ 16 above the keep; in practise there is no real problem The weight of the loco pushes the axle box well up the guides and nothing interferes. You could just make the pins on each end of the beam a little longer though if you wished.

About the exhaust steam pipe: I didn't make mine that way any way. I made the pipes out of two copper plumbing bends cut through to half the diameter on one end and soldered together to form a flowing bend from each cylinder. This, in turn, was soldered into the smokebox stretcher with the grafted end inside the smoke box and the outer ends flush with the sides of the frame ( inside face). When the cylinders are bolted on I use an O-ring in a counterbore on the inside face of the cylinder back plate. Hope this is clear enough!

[abby]

Sorry to be a pain but can anyone confirm the CORRECT diameter of the bogie wheels ? Dons drawings state clearly that the tread diameter should be 3 1/2" with an axle bore of 1/2", which is correct to scale as the full sized wheels were 39 1/2".
For my G1 version , I have been attempting to model the spokes as shown in the general arrangement drawing (page1), and my attempts cannot produce anything like this wheel .
On checking I find that if the the axle is scaled up to 1/2" then the wheel tread diameter is just under 3".
This has cost me several wasted hours of work. I suppose if you buy and machine the wheel castings you would not notice this but if making a wheel pattern this could be important.
Can anyone post a good picture of a bogie wheel ?

[baggo]

Hi Abby,

the outside diameter is 3 1/2" but on the general arrangement drawing the axle is drawn as almost 5/8" diameter instead of the correct 1/2". That's what's causing the 'scaling' problem I think. If it's any help the diameter of the wheel boss is 1" and the inside diameter of the tread is 2 3/4". The diameter of the inside of the 'Vee' is 2 1/4".

Here's a pic of an unmachined casting if it's of any use:



John

[abby]

Many thanks John , after much thought I suddenly realised that the axle might be wrong and not the rim so it is great to have confirmation. The picture is perfect!

[abby]

Hi all , more problems I need advice on !
1. Are the holes for fixing the bogie bolster to the frames correct on the drawings ? if yes then I have made the bolster wrong , some of the dimensions are missing on my drawings and I have had to extrapolate.
2. I am presuming that the holes in the rear flange of the leading stay and the front flange of the horizontal stay are for bolting the smoke box saddle to ? there is not enough room on my model ! What have I done wrong.
I have checked all my measurements but my head is hurting now , so please help.

[baggo]

Hi Abby,

the 5 countersink holes at 3/4" from the bottom of the frames are the top fixing holes on the bogie bolster. The lower fixings for the bolster use 5 of the cylinder mounting bolts on the bottom of the cylinder mounting plates.

The 5 csk holes at an angle above the top bolster fixings are for fixing the smokebox saddle (don't see why they are at an angle though as the bottom of the saddle is not angled?). Again, some of the cylinder mounting bolts ( top row?) are used to secure the saddle as well. I assume that the holes in the stretchers are also intended to secure the saddle as the stretchers do butt up to the front and rear of the saddle. Don certainly didn't intend it to fall off ;D

Incidentally, if you do come across holes without any dimensions it's almost certainly because the holes are meant to be spotted through from the mating component. For example, the fixing holes on the bogie stretcher are not dimensioned as they are meant to be spotted through from the holes in the frames etc.
John

[abby]

Thanks yet again John , your explanation makes everything clear , although I will not use all the parts from the 5" gauge version in my G1 model and will surely have to simplify some and combine others , I thought it would be a good idea (at the time) to do a 3D model at 5" gauge to see how it all works and what will be possible to scale down without design change etc.
I am making good progress but it is a lot of work ! if anyone wants the completed 3D files just ask.

[mutley]

Hi Abby,
How do you convert your 3D files into patterns for casting? Are you going to RP them or produce by hand in the traditional manner?

Andy

[abby]

Hi Mutley , I am afraid I will have to cheat for many of the parts and have the patterns rapid prototyped , there is just too much work for one man to make the patterns by traditional methods .
The files are exported as STL files and emailed direct to the RP company , but some of the simpler parts I have made the patterns by hand , and the dies for the cylinders , connecting and coupling rods , smoke box saddle , come to think of it I have made a lot of the tooling by old school means.
I have had some quotes for CNC-ing some of the bits but it is far too expensive compared to casting.
I am looking for a hydraulic ram around 4" dia with an 18" stroke if anyone has such an item in their scrap pile , I am attempting to make an extrusion press for brass bar and copper tube and if it works I will be able to produce odd sizes of squares , hexagonals and tubes.

[sapper]

Anyone making the Geo Stephenson version to close scale may have noticed that she is fitted with electric lights. Current is supplied by a steam geneator situated on the LH running board adjacent to the smokebox. I have just spotted that the Aug and Sept 2008 editions of ME carried an article on the construction of a Turbo Generator using a miniature dynamo taken from a windup torch. The general outline of the model appears to match the full size version very well.
My model has the lights fitted but I never got round to making the dynamo so it is now on my to do list. There is a large battery box located on the fireman's side of the footplate which could be used to hide a number of small batteries
There are several pictures of my loco on the Nottingham SMEE website for anyone who is interested.
www.NSMEE.com
Sapper

[baggo]

I'll save those pics for future reference if that's ok

John

[abby]

What a beauty , I will do likewise if I may? I am sorting out a boiler for my G1 version , with help from Harry I am hoping for coal firing .
Also a problem is the provision of drain-cocks , I was thinking along the lines of having a single cock on each cylinder with passages to either end and operated by RC , making something so small , light in operation yet steam tight is taxing my brains though ! anyone got any ideas , advice ?

[spamcanman]

The new Aster 9F and my V2 'Green Arrow' coal fired G1 both have drain cocks I will put a photo on here in the morning.

[44767]

Sapper,

Nice touch with the electric lighting. I guess I should be doing that too since the loco has its electric lighting back on (it had been removed while in service) and I am modelling it "as preserved". I seem to remember the generator on the off side of the loco though.

I see in the photo of your loco that you have the correct axlebox covers. I have a mould for casting resin ones if anyone is modelling a Black 5 with roller bearings.



www.flickr.com/photos/mkrj/3294072479/

I know the suspension is not correct for this tender but I had already started the tender before I decided to model 44767. Note that all of this is fabricated as I could not afford the castings since I was a student at the time. The leaf springs are made from banding material which was slit down to the required 7/16" width and then cut to length- 3 thicknesses representing one leaf. I found that by bending each leaf around the same diameter (size found by trial and error) by hand pressure only and then stacking them in assending order of size that they nested perfectly. This material is easily drilled but because, when it is in service, it will never be taken past its elastic limit the set will not change. I can adjust the spring to ride softly or to take my weight so seems to be a good way of making the leaves from what is normally scrap.

Mike

[drjohn]

Absolutely magnificent sapper - I also have stored the pictures for inspiration.

Do you have any of it in steam?

Another thing I notice, I don't know if it's a camera aberration, but the boiler seems to have much less taper than the other LMS class 5 on that site.

Well done.

DJ

[Laurie_B]

Excellent work Mike.

[sapper]

Thanks for your kind remarks.
Mike is quite correct the generator is on the RH side. I should have looked at my photos in the first place.
I started building 44767 in 1973 so I was one of the first. The drawings in those days were in Don's own fair hand so in a spirt of helpfullness I used to send Don a list of errors that I had spotted about every 12 months. Later the design was printed in his magazine LLAS but nothing had been changed.
I still have the notes so as soon as I get a chance I will post them on this site. In the mean time I must master this business of posting photographs.
Sapper

[baggo]

Feb 20, 2009 19:07:03 GMT sapper said:

I still have the notes so as soon as I get a chance I will post them on this site.

That would be much appreciated as I hope to make a start on mine in the not too distant future

I'm not sure how old my drawings are as I got them s/h along with the wheel castings but they probably haven't been altered either! Incidentally, the wheel castings are very good quality and will need hardly any fettling. I presume they came from Don.

John

[Myford Matt]

Hi John

I really hope you chronicle your B5 build along the lines of Helen. Always a good read and very informative.

Cheers

Matt