Tramming a WM16

[silverfox]

I see M-DRO do a double DTI fittig for this job, and looks really easy to set up and use ( no rotating the quill)

Apart from them are there any other firms that might do someting similar

And While the X axis looks to be easy to adjust, what might be involved if i have a 'front to back' discrepancy?

Reason is while using end mill i get a swirling pattern going one way, not ebnough to feel with the fingernail but visible. Looking at other threads could it be that is is slightly out and one edge ( either leading or trailing) is cutting deeper that the other side

[simplyloco]

Good morning!
If you can't feel the cut lines with your fingernail then that is an acceptable machined surface. If I wanted a smoother surface then I would grind it, or finish it on the surface plate using some 320 wet and dry.
John
One can buy surface texture measurement devices that rely on one's fingernail!

www.google.com/search?q=surface+texture+comparison+methods&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=-bC15vf9ry0VhM%253A%252CE-Aj0YCUJfmUXM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQZFBTr74swtjR_98zaY2PJg6UcUQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwid9Pq3i5vjAhXJbMAKHVZkCr0Q9QEwEnoECAcQCA#imgrc=-bC15vf9ry0VhM:

[timo]

Hi,

I am just about to make a tramming head for my WM16. MSC had a sale on and .001 dial gauges were £6 + VAT each! Two gauges and some mild steel and job done. In terms of front to back, I guess any error will require shims under the column support. I am currently pondering another screw adjuster on the other side of the head similar to the verical stop so that adjusting the head is a little easier than using brute force. It would also hold the head in position when tightening the head clamping bolts.

Tim

[Roger]

I just attach my normal miniature magnetic clock holder to the quill. No special attachments are necessary to do this job if you have one of these. It's my universal clock mount that I use on the lathe and the mill.
Large magnetic mounts are next to useless in my opinion because you need too large an area to attach it to. The type I have has two ball joints. I used a small grinding point to relieve the ball home to give us more room to articulate. I wouldn't be without one, they're so useful.

[silverfox]

JUst had an email from Machine DRO and thet have a tramming kit for 10% off.....very tempted at 90.00 ish!!

[timo]

Just done the design for mine. Got the materials to hand. Will come out at about £12 (two dial indicators on sale at MSC) as the MS was in stock. Less than £20 all in if I had to buy the MS. It will need a bit of work but about 2 - 4 hors shoud see it done.

Tim

[jem]

Roger, do you think that you could post a picture of your miniature clock holder setup, I am sure that we have seen it many times in your splendid photos of "how you do it", but a photo on its own would be very useful please.

best wishes

Jem.

[jem]

Roger, do you think that you could post a picture of your miniature clock holder setup, I am sure that we have seen it many times in your splendid photos of "how you do it", but a photo on its own would be very useful please.

best wishes

Jem.

[Roger]

Jul 15, 2019 14:04:39 GMT jem said:

Roger, do you think that you could post a picture of your miniature clock holder setup, I am sure that we have seen it many times in your splendid photos of "how you do it", but a photo on its own would be very useful please.

best wishes

Jem.

Hi Jem,
Here's a pretty good picture of it in use....


20190708_155311 by Anne Froud, on Flickr


I think mine came from RDG Tools at the Alexandra Palace show a few years ago. There are lots of them available with a DTI included, but I doubt if the clocks are any good at the prices they sell for. It's worth spending the extra to get a good stand in my opinion.

You'll also notice that I've got a fine adjustment attachment on mine, I wouldn't be without that. You can buy those too, but they are harder to find an can be expensive. I made mine, but it predates any CAD so I can't find a drawing of that. It's simple enough to figure out though.

[jasonb]

John "Bogstandard did an article on making a two DTI tool if you want to have a go yourself, Like Roger I just use a dti in an even simpler holder.

www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=416.0

Any Nod will more than likely need the base of the column shimming but the head swivel can also cause an error front to back. You then also need to see if teh quill is parallel to teh column as tramming one may not make both true.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp4sqaAw11Y&t=120s

[simplyloco]

I really don't see what the problem is, as I'm not toolmaking any more. I put a piece of silver steel in the chuck or collet, and put my precision square against it, shining a light on a piece of white paper behind the square, whacking the column with a soft hammer until the light source more or less disappears.  For centreing small (ish) diameters I put the Verdict straight in the chuck and engage the pear shaped bit on the work circumference and spin it. Perfectly adequate for my purposes, and possibly yours...
John

[Roger]

Jul 15, 2019 18:38:55 GMT simplyloco said:

I really don't see what the problem is, as I'm not toolmaking any more. I put a piece of silver steel in the chuck or collet, and put my precision square against it, shining a light on a piece of white paper behind the square, whacking the column with a soft hammer until the light source more or less disappears.  For centreing small (ish) diameters I put the Verdict straight in the chuck and engage the pear shaped bit on the work circumference and spin it. Perfectly adequate for my purposes, and possibly yours...
John

Hi John,
For most things it's probably good enough to do what you do, but it does assume that the chuck runout is good.

However, it's dead easy to tram it over a much bigger distance, say 300mm, so that's what I do. I find it's hard to tap the head and get it to move the right amount, probably because the head is pretty heavy. I slot a long piece of bar between the belt guard and the head so I can gently lean on it and smoothly adjust it until it's right.

[simplyloco]

Jul 15, 2019 22:15:56 GMT Roger said:

Jul 15, 2019 18:38:55 GMT simplyloco said:

Hi John,
For most things it's probably good enough to do what you do, but it does assume that the chuck runout is good.

SNIP

Of course! It's an EMCO FB2...

[jem]

Thanks very much Roger, that is very helpful, and I can see that the finer adjustment would not be very difficult to make.

best wishes

Jem

[timo]

Started making the tramming head this afternoon. Playing with feeds and speeds to get a good finsh. Hope to finidh the main bar tomorrow.

Tim

[jem]

am I missing something with regard to the tramming head ? I made a fixture which is held in the chuck, and has a clock on the end of the bar,but the clock faces up, so it is easy to see when it is turned 180 degrees, so to check my mill is vertical to the bed, I just swivel the chuck round 360 degrees, and that gives me the 4 readings, x and y axis. It seems to work well for me, and with an up facing clock dead easy to read at any point. The trammel head requires plenty of skill to make it really accurately, and you still have to crane your head to read the clocks.

best wishes

Jem

[timo]

Dear Jem,

There are several ways to tram the mill and using a single dial gauge is one. I am making a twin gauge head which means you simply get the two gauges to read the same (having zero'd them). You don't have to make it to super accurate tolerances as the difference between the two gauges is taken away during the zero process. The advantage is that you can see the degree of 'level' whilst you making adjustments rather than adjust, measure, adjust and so on. I have done as you describe and it works but I found it a real faff especially when things changed as the head nuts were tightened up. I intend to make another screw adjuster for the WM16 like the one supplied but on the opposite side. That way I can use the two screws to adjust the head in a controlled way rather than belting things with a soft faced hammer!

A couple of pictures of my embryonic head will appear later on the what I've done today thread.

Tim

[Roger]

Jul 17, 2019 17:11:21 GMT jem said:

am I missing something with regard to the tramming head ? I made a fixture which is held in the chuck, and has a clock on the end of the bar,but the clock faces up, so it is easy to see when it is turned 180 degrees, so to check my mill is vertical to the bed, I just swivel the chuck round 360 degrees, and that gives me the 4 readings, x and y axis. It seems to work well for me, and with an up facing clock dead easy to read at any point. The trammel head requires plenty of skill to make it really accurately, and you still have to crane your head to read the clocks.

best wishes

Jem

Hi Jem,
No, it's really simple, and you can do it with the little magnetic clock base holding the DTI out at a decent radius just like you do. I just swing it round 180 degrees and zero it so that I can get a reading on both sides. Once that's done, I just halve the error and move the head to that position on the clock.
On mine there's no adjustment in the Y direction though, so you can only check it and weep when it's not right.

[jem]

Thanks very much Tim and Roger, I don't think that I will be making a tramming head.

best wishes

Jem

[timo]

Dear Jem,

I completely understand. I don't mind making tools which helps ...

I wanted to go for a twin gauge head after using a single gauge, getting what I thought was level and then using a 2" shell end mill which didn't seem to be cutting as flat as I thought it should - just me and using a single gauge - blame it on age. I couldn't afford the £90 - £100 for a commercial one so hence making one.

I have just realised that I can also use it for setting up shallow tapers on workpieces - no not tilting the head, titing the workpiece. I had already decided to use a 10" distance between the gauges so that should make the maths easy

Best Regards

Tim