Sisyphean

[David]

I'm going to rename the red loco Sisyphean.

Here's the todo list.

• Secure tyres to wheels.
• Make new water tap for the right hand side - original got distorted when I was unsoldering the old pipe from it and can't be recovered.
• Fix broken bolt in left-front cylinder cover - my fault
• Refit the missing cylinder drain to the hole that's been tapped too large - my fault and no idea what I was thinking when I did that.
• Make a new turret that doesn't get blocked so easily, isn't filled with soft solder caulking, and has valves that don't leak.
• Add a chain or cord for the whistle valve so I can use it.
• Reconnect cylinder drains - mechanism got mangled when son pushed the thing off its stand.
• Add oil pipes so eccentric straps can be oiled more easily.
• Drill bigger oil holes into eccentric strap, fit some brass tube to act as a reservoir.
• Make new displacement lubricator that is easier to fill and drain. I've already made most of the bits.
• Secure side tanks to running boards properly.
• Improve the tender/loco connection on the left hand side if the new fittings on the right hand side are successful.
• Add a drain hole and plug to the tender.
• Fix cab rear and roof supports.
• Grind rivets at rear of side tanks flush so the tanks can sit against the cab cleanly.
• Remove the extra frame stays the original owner added. This thing as 10mm plate frames and the extra stays just get in the way.
• New buffer beam.
• Drill holes in frame that lead to the top of the axleboxes to make them easier to get oil into.
• Add an axle pump.
• Repaint - good practice for using a spray gun and the paint is pretty bad now.

A good deal of that won't happen. But it gives an idea of how much time and effort I could spend on this thing. It's about as enticing as working on your learner's bike when all your mates are riding around on 1000cc sports bikes.

[David]

I got it up on the bench this afternoon to loctite that tyre back on. I was hoping to get the tyre out between the wheel and the crosshead and leave the wheels in place but the tyre couldn't get over the hub of the wheel.



While fiddling around with the crosshead, seeing if there was any way to locate and orient it that would allow the tyre out I noticed a bonus inside - some voids inside the cast iron. It's gone long enough that they obviously don't weaken it.



Once the front axle was out I tried the right hand tyre and was able to get it most of the way off with my fingers so just as well it's all out. I'll have to fix both sides and with the axle out I can put 3 set screws through the tyre and into the wheel on each side. That will leave holes in the tyres but unless someone tells me that's a terrible idea I can't see what else to do. I need the tyres secured both radially and axially so something like a scotch key won't be enough.

Once I clean the old loctite off the tyres are going to be pretty loose. My retainer only being good for 0.15mm won't be enough so I'll have to go looking for something else.

Another feature became obvious with the axle out. The wheels on one side have the balance weights reversed! I always wondered why it was so difficult to get oil into the axlebox on one side at the front - with the crosshead, slidebar, and the large balance weight that should be on the rear axle there is not much room for the oilcan spout.

[racinjason]

David,
I would ring Ben and buy 4 new cnc steel wheels and bore them to a shrink on fit with your blowfly wheels.
Cheers Jason.

[David]

I know that's the right thing to do but it's too much money and effort for this loco. I'd be very lucky if I managed to bore a press fit anyway.

I have cleaned the old loctite off the wheels and tyres and measured them. The difference is about 0.2mm, so about 0.002" above what the newly bought retainer says it will handle!

I have borrowed an old bottle of Loctite 680 and the US site says it will fill a 0.015" gap which is good although seems optimistic. I'll try that, put the setscrews in and see what happens. I know Loctite has a shelf life but this won't need to be full strength with the setscrews in.

[uuu]

It sounds like your proposed screws are in the tyre, pushing in onto the wheel.

Could you drill and tap the wheel instead, and have screws pushing out against the tyre? With points on the tips of the screws, they would mark the wheel for dimples to be made on the inside rim before glueing. Photos of the Stirling single recently posted show this arrangement (although we don't know yet if the hex head screws are just cosmetic, or functional).

Wilf

[springcrocus]

Jul 27, 2019 4:06:56 GMT David said:

Once the front axle was out I tried the right hand tyre and was able to get it most of the way off with my fingers so just as well it's all out. I'll have to fix both sides and with the axle out I can put 3 set screws through the tyre and into the wheel on each side. That will leave holes in the tyres but unless someone tells me that's a terrible idea I can't see what else to do. I need the tyres secured both radially and axially so something like a scotch key won't be enough.

Would it be possible to drill and tap, say, three M3 holes in the wheel rim so that you could tighten grub screws outwards onto the inside of the tyre? It might even mark the tyre enough that small dimples could be formed with a dremmel. The grub screws heads could be filled later.

Just a thought,

Steve

[springcrocus]

Amazing! Wilf and I both posted the same solution simultaneously. What's the chances of that, I wonder?

Regards, Steve

[David]

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I'll see if I can get an allen key in between the rim and hub.

[steamer5]

Hi David,
To add or subtract to Wilf & Steves idea, looking at the picture of your wheels, I'd head down the road of 4 grub screw, 1 each side by the counter weights, were you have full depth to the center, & do like wise either side of the crank.
Watching with interest what ever you do.

Cheers Kerrin

[David]

I offered an allen key up to the wheels this morning and there are only 4 gaps between the spokes it would fit into - the ones at 90deg to the weight/crankpin axis. These are very small dia wheels. I'd rather the screws were evenly spaced so they will have to be screwed in from the outside. I doubt 3 holes in the steel tyres will cause much trouble other than looking a bit messy. I'll threadlock the screws so they don't work their way out.

After using a wire wheel to get the old Loctite off yesterday the wheels and tryes were cleaned with brake cleaner, then today with acetone before using the Loctite 680. I'll let that set for at least a day (24 hour cure time) and then drill and tap the holes.

It occurred to me this morning that the innards of the old water tap should still be okay so it was only the body I had to remake. That's just a 11/32 blind bore with a hole in the side and the bottom and an internal 3/8 x 32 thread so shouldn't be too much trouble. I don't care if it leaks water as long as it doesn't suck air. So I made that this morning but I won't fit it until I've had a good run or two with the pipe-with-no-tap setup, or if that proves unworkable on the track. It worked perfectly for 2 or 3 hours with the loco in steam on its stand.

[uuu]

You could cut down an allen key to may the leg shorter?

Wilf

[nonort]

May be to late but, why not wrap a shim around the wheel to make up some of the slack? This idea is used in industry to re use worn shafting. Look up 'refurbish shims' in the local bearing stockist. The other fix may be to use a shim to make the outside of the wheel back to a shrink fit for your existing tyres. A thou per inch is about right. the tyre can then be heated just enough to make it discolour very pale straw. There is a 'youtube' video of this process somewhere.

[jon38r80]

I think that if you drilled from the flange side of the tyre pockets and then threaded them, then put in grub screws with locktite. that would fix the tyre to the rim in both axial and side to side directions and not be seen nor affect the running surface of the tyre.

[jon38r80]

Having just read that again It's not clear that the holes be drilled in the same way as your axles are pinned to the wheels.

[ettingtonliam]

The trouble with the suggestions about drilling and tapping the wheel so the screws push outwards against the tyre, and the suggestion to drill in from the back, half in the wheel and half in the tyre, is that these methods tend to cause local distortions in the tyre, which will act counter to the Locset. If, and it seems unlikely, you can't manage the old full size solution of drilling the wheel and then drill and tap matching blind holes inside the tyre, then your solution of drilling through the tyre and tapping the wheel rim seems the best, on the whole.

[David]

I spent some time trying to see how I could drill into the inside of the wheel/tyre but couldn't make a drill fit in any useful orientation. I couldn't bring myself to drill right through the tread so we'll have to see how the loctite on its own goes. If the wheels come off (literally, figuratively?) again then it will have to be screws through the treads. This loco is not getting new tyres or wheels. I agree with Ettingtonliam that set screws pushing against the tyre from the inside would be iffy unless I got it just right and they were at equal spacings around the tyre which I couldn't managed due to the tiny gaps between rim and counterweight.

The axle journals are noticeably worn, 0.003" per side. It's pretty well impossible to get oil to them due to the fact the loco sits down on the axleboxes and covers them with its 10mm frames, and there is only a tiny little oil hole in the top of the box - about 3/16". This can't be made bigger because it would the eat into the spring pockets. So you have to lift the weight off a wheel, point the oilcan at about a 2mm gap and squirt, hoping some finds it way into the hole. The fact the frames cover these holes, and the valve rods are right next to the front ones, mean there is nowhere to put some copper pipe from an oil tank. With some long drills I could perhaps drill through the journals and then drill along the axle to meet that from the centre drillings in the ends of the axles. But I'll live with the wear.

The right motion bracket was missing it's top bolt into the frame and the left one had both bolts worked out so it was just flopping around and held in place by the slidebar. To address this I had to take the running boards off, which means undoing all the plumbing too! The bolts are inaccessible up and under the deep running boards. I used threadlock on them this time. The ones that had worked loose have loosened the threads in the frame I think because even new bolts were a sloppy fit.

The slidebar on the left was still floppy after I'd replaced it's bolt into the cylinder cover so I put a washer under the bolt head. Looks pretty bad but I couldn't think of a better quick solution.

There is a lot of wear in the coupling rod bushes, but I can live with that.

[racinjason]

David you have it that far apart fix it properly with new tyres drill up the axle to the journal then cross drill so you can oil the axle box from the outside. A bit of time and money now will reward you for years of trouble free running.
Cheers Jason.

[delaplume]

Hi David,

Quote "drill up the axle to the journal then cross drill so you can oil the axle box from the outside"

I have just done this on a Simplex rear axle ( The one that's closest to the fire ) and it works a treat !!

[David]

Yes, that is the only solution I can see that will work. I looked at doing it last night before it went back together but I'll need a long series drill to do it or the drill chuck will hit the wheel. This is the way the mogul axles are oiled.

How did you get a drill down into the Simplex axle, didn't the wheel get in the way?

[racinjason]

Drill a 3/32 hole in a piece of 1/4" rod in the lathe then loctite the drill shank in the hole. Cut it long enough to clear the wheel and you gave a simple long series drill.