Problem with 5" Gauge Martin Evans based Terrier

[jma1009]

Hi Andy,

That YouTube video was great! So pleased for you after all the angst and worry.

Even if you don't get to completion with the boiler paper trail, IMHO the IWMES boiler inspectors ought to pass this professionally made boiler subsequent to a test and inspection thanks to the posts of John Baguley (Baggo) and Chris D (coniston); just as they did with the example I quoted.

Actually, in your YouTube clip, the chimney doesn't look too bad at all and I could live with it quite happily!

I think in the last few days you have added a couple of grand to your purchase price, and in due course it will be the very first Terrier (to my knowledge) ever to steam at the IWMES track at Broadfields, Cowes.

Wonderful!

Cheers,
Julian

[dscott]

With a quick E-mail to the Cheltenham Club I have today discovered who built my boiler.
It is a Graham White one who once ran a Model Engineering Business and built many Boilers.
So not used since 1996!
We may now find out who did such a superb job on the frames and wheels!

David and Lily. Also Terrier owners.

[overner]

Thanks for the comments Julian - If this is the first Terrier at the IWMES at leat it should be a talking point ... Regarding the pseudo Westinghouse pump masquerading as a water or weir pump as the
builder calls it in his Log, I am afraid the lower cylinder is a dummy as the pipes go nowhere after entering the cab sides. There is a steam connection from the manifold to the top cylinder but I have not tested
this as I used the connection for the compressed air supply.

Cheers .. Andy


Terrier Weir Pump by Andy Hastings, on Flickr

[overner]

The boiler is not one of George Brannigan's. .... 😟 Back to detective mode ..

[delaplume]

Oh dear............As I say to my Joyce}--- "Keep your chins up"..........LoL !!

[stevep]

Dec 3, 2019 19:38:10 GMT delaplume said:

Oh dear............As I say to my Joyce}--- "Keep your chins up"..........LoL !!

And you're still alive?

[delaplume]

Dec 4, 2019 13:57:08 GMT stevep said:

Dec 3, 2019 19:38:10 GMT delaplume said:

Oh dear............As I say to my Joyce}--- "Keep your chins up"..........LoL !!

And you're still alive?

I bleed therefore I am.......(sob)

[johnthepump]

Dec 3, 2019 19:02:04 GMT overner said:

The boiler is not one of George Brannigan's. .... 😟 Back to detective mode ..

Hi Andy,

We have been following this thread with interest. Looking at the details page of Station Road Steam's stock No.7678 from the link. It states the boiler does not have a CE mark and is non commercial and a lot of other detail. I can only assume like me you missed the little arrows at the top of the description, this was pointed out by one of our younger members at lunch at the club today.

If you need any help or advice pop into Broadfields on a Wednesday for a chat our If your busy in the daytime you are more than welcome to come to the Pumphouse on a Wednesday evening ( which has been supporting Model engineering on the IoW for over 25 years).

Regards John.

PS I once owned Godshill Station.

[delaplume]

Dec 4, 2019 18:05:52 GMT johnthepump said:

Dec 3, 2019 19:02:04 GMT overner said:

The boiler is not one of George Brannigan's. .... 😟 Back to detective mode ..

Hi Andy,

We have been following this thread with interest. Looking at the details page of Station Road Steam's stock No.7678 from the link. It states the boiler does not have a CE mark and is non commercial and a lot of other detail. I can only assume like me you missed the little arrows at the top of the description, this was pointed out by one of our younger members at lunch at the club today.

If you need any help or advice pop into Broadfields on a Wednesday for a chat our If your busy in the daytime you are more than welcome to come to the Pumphouse on a Wednesday evening ( which has been supporting Model engineering on the IoW for over 25 years).

Regards John.

PS I once owned Godshill Station.

Yes, you're quite right ----I'm just as guilty missing that  (^  Details)  heading on many an occasion..........


As stated}--No CE mark, non-commercial build..

Fingers crossed and plough on !!

[ettingtonliam]

Do you know the name of the original builder? Maybe his initials were GB and he had built 11 boilers before this one marked GB12?

At worst, given a reasonable boiler inspector, and a boiler which (hopefully) looks well made, isn't a case of taking it out of the frames and have it given a 2xWP hydraulic followed by a steam test?

What happened to the paperwork from SRS if they gave it a 1 1/2 xWP test before selling it?

[cplmickey]

I see people querying the paperwork from SRS but isn't the clue in the ebay listing (or am I missing something here?)

LAST SOLD BY SRSTEAM AND HYDRO.TESTED- TO 30-10-2021BY THEM.
"I have a detailed note book-with all the details of testing/steaming at club level
10 pages in all-if you would like to read this-email by ebay-and will send to you"

So if squireathuttonbs24 knew about the hydro test to 2021 then surely he would have the certificate. The "detailed notebook ..." then giving supplementary evidence to help a boiler inspector decide the appropriate course of action?

[overner]

SRS sold the Terrier to a Tony Sullivan of Essex (who I will be writing to) complete with Boiler test paperwork including initial shell test.
The details section in the archive listings on the SRS website show:

hydraulic test valid to 30-Oct-21

steam test valid to 8-Jan-19

so the seller was quoting this, but as I pointed out to him, this means absolutely nothing without the paperwork ..

The Log Book details do not include any builder or boiler testers names  ...

[overner]

Dec 4, 2019 18:05:52 GMT johnthepump said:

Dec 3, 2019 19:02:04 GMT overner said:

Hi Andy

If you need any help or advice pop into Broadfields on a Wednesday for a chat our If your busy in the daytime you are more than welcome to come to the Pumphouse on a Wednesday evening ( which has been supporting Model engineering on the IoW for over 25 years).

Regards John.

PS I once owned Godshill Station.

Hi John - I hope to be visiting Broadfields this Saturday (open day?) weather permitting and will bring the Terrier ....

Cheers .. Andy

[johnthepump]

Dec 5, 2019 14:21:30 GMT overner said:

Dec 4, 2019 18:05:52 GMT johnthepump said:

Hi Andy

If you need any help or advice pop into Broadfields on a Wednesday for a chat our If your busy in the daytime you are more than welcome to come to the Pumphouse on a Wednesday evening ( which has been supporting Model engineering on the IoW for over 25 years).

Regards John.

PS I once owned Godshill Station.

Hi John - I hope to be visiting Broadfields this Saturday (open day?) weather permitting and will bring the Terrier ....

Cheers .. Andy

Hi Andy, Personal Message sent. Regards John.

[overner]

I have discovered that the builder of this Terrier has sadly passed away, but I have contacted the second owner and await a reply re. the missing paperwork.
Mike and John at the IWMES have been very helpful and have suggested I remove the boiler cladding to enable a visual inspection, so this sounds like a plan I am happy
to follow if nothing else transpires. 
I may video the stripdown if it might be of interest to anyone ....

Thanks .. Andy

[ianmcgoo22]

I would definitely be interested in a video of the boiler stripdown.

[jma1009]

Hi Andy,

I note you have recently edited your post of 5th December.

I would not agree that you have received correct advice at this stage to strip the boiler of the cleading and cladding which to my mind requires a major strip down and removal of the cab and bunker assembly and side tanks, and lifting the boiler out of the frames to remove the cleading and cladding. You will no doubt have to also remove the smokebox and saddle, or part thereof.

All you need is the original builder's club details, and that club will have duplicate records of the boiler tests as will whichever Federation that club was affiliated to. You can then reconstruct the paper trail, and no strip down of the loco will be necessary. You may even receive all the missing details from the second owner, though I guess this is unlikely as Mike Palmer would have asked for these.

You have removed the pic of the presumably original builder taken at Bressingham - have you had any success in establishing the identity of the original builder?

You can tell a great deal about the integrity of a miniature loco builder by simply examining the inner firebox and backhead and foundation ring with an expert eye, and some knowledge of the Martin Evans Boxhill designed boiler would also be of help.

Cheers,
Julian

[jo479]

As a boiler inspector, as JMA1009 says, if you can find the original details, there would be no need for a cleading off job, it would be jst as bad as taking the boiler off, I quite often get enquiries from the boiler registrar (SFED) for details of previous tests, we can usually come up with the goods.

[overner]

Dec 13, 2019 14:41:26 GMT overner said:

I have discovered that the builder of this Terrier has sadly passed away, but I have contacted the second owner and await a reply re. the missing paperwork.
Mike and John at the IWMES have been very helpful and have suggested I remove the boiler cladding to enable a visual inspection, so this sounds like a plan I am happy
to follow if nothing else transpires. 

Thanks .. Andy

Hi Julian, 

As I posted, the builder has sadly passed away, which is why I removed the image. I am awaiting a reply from the 2nd owner who knew the builder, regarding the club where the Terrier was steamed. If this info is not forthcoming, I can see no other option than to partially dismantle if I want the boiler certified

Thanks .. Andy

[jma1009]

Hi Andy,

My question was not whether the original builder had died or not; instead it related to establishing his identity and to which club he was a member of that would have done the original boiler tests, which subsequently the loco was then run on a club track and 'proved' before final painting.

You posted a very clear pic of the original builder at Bressingham - now deleted by you. You must have some idea who the original builder was? And it is the sort of question Mike Palmer would have asked of Tony Sullivan, the second owner.

I think you have received incorrect advice to dismantle the loco, from 2 named persons by you who have never themselves made a miniature locomotive boiler to completion and tested, and know nothing of the peculiar features of Martin Evans' 'Boxhill' boiler, and admittedly, via another thread have no experience of testing a new boiler in a club that has not tested a new boiler for 23 years till the other week, and when none of these 2 individuals were club boiler testers 23 years ago.

These named individuals by you also seem to be unaware of following up a recognised paper trail through club duplicate records of tests and the Feds, as mentioned by "jo4792", to avoid you having to dismantle the loco. They ought to have advised you to exhaustively researched the 'paper trail' first!

I consider you have received very poor advice.

Cheers,
Julian