Problem with 5" Gauge Martin Evans based Terrier

[overner]

Hi Julian

I assume that as I know the builder had passed away, it is logical that I know his name, of course I do. As he is no longer with us, I did not want to plaster his name over this forum as a mark of respect. This is also why I deleted the photo. He worked as a volunteer at Bressingham, where 32662 is based and where the second owner is a driver and trustee. It is his reply that I await ...


So, to summarise:

I have contacted all the previous owners, including SRS to try and determine which club and where the loco was steamed and tested.
Tony Sullivan was not the second owner, he was the 4th if you count SRS. Mike at SRS is reluctant to provide a copy of the SRS test performed prior to
the loco being sold to Tony
Tony told me that he did not receive ANY paperwork with the loco from SRS.
SRS told me they sent it.
The second owner is Rob Ellis and I am in contact with him at this time
I am persevering with trying to find any duplicate or copy test info.

I am trying to stay out of any club politics or history you may have with the IWMES. As a newcomer to live steam models, there is a wealth of experience at the club and I have to be guided by the other helpful members if I wish to run my locos there.

I appreciate your advice and concerns but I think I have exhausted all avenues unless you can suggest something I have missed ..

Cheers

Andy

[jma1009]

Hi Andy,

I don't know what ME club is nearest to Bressingham, but if you know the identity of the original builder then it ought not be too difficult to find out what ME club he belonged to, and then contact that club secretary to ask for copies of the original duplicate copies of the boiler test records.

This would be a better way than relying on what you describe as a rather problematic history of tracing records via owners.

There is a caveat to all this. In the IWMES, from about 1984, Bert Brock became a club boiler inspector as Freddie Dinnis was getting on a bit, and in any event no one ever got Freddie to test a miniature loco boiler as he would (as legend had it) get out a DTI to measure the deflection of the plates! So in effect Bert replaced the ageing Freddie, to assist Arthur Grimmett, though I came across no records I can recall of Bert ever testing a boiler, and indeed none of his locos ever had an official club boiler test... which in retrospect is difficult to comprehend as his 5"g O2 'Alverstone' was often on the club track at Broadfields! But I was just a 'nipper' then, but later examined all the records in considerable detail. The insurance implications don't bare thinking about! Another example was Don Young who also never subjected any of his 3 locos to an official club boiler test in the IWMES; yet his Railmotor ran on the IWMES club track as did his K1/1, and his Railmotor also ran on the SMEE track at one of the exhibitions, and on the Derby track; all without a club boiler certificate!

The point of all this is that it just possible that something similar occurred with your Terrier, albeit 30 -35 years later.

I would suggest the GB11 stamped on the boiler might be 2011 when the boiler was completed. The notes of the boiler test you provided a pic of do not contain the details one might expect of a club boiler test, and just a 'private' test possibly; though I would still investigate what club the builder was a member of and contact the club secretary to see what records exist etc.

A good pic of the inside of the inner firebox would be of interest, also showing the foundation ring.

Cheers,

Julian

[overner]

You are correct Julian re. the boiler ID. GB12 is the builders initials and the year, 2012 it was built/tested. If I hear nothing from Rob Ellis I will list and contact the clubs within an 80 mile radius of Bressingham.
As I have now had the loco successfully running on air and thus resolved the running problem, I think this thread has now run its course.

Thank you all who have assisted, advised and helped with information - I am sure I will be posting with requests for more assistance in the future ..

Regards .. Andy

[delaplume]

Hi Andy,

One final request by way of closure}---------Can you post either a short video or a couple of "Static" photos showing it running ??

Many thanks

Alan

[overner]

Hi Alan - There is a short YouTube video earlier in the thread, bottom of page 2 ..

Thanks .. Andy

[ettingtonliam]

I appreciate that you want closure on this discussion. but if you finally manage to track down the appropriate original test paperwork, I think we'd all be interested to know that you had succeeded.

[overner]

Dec 14, 2019 12:02:13 GMT ettingtonliam said:

I appreciate that you want closure on this discussion. but if you finally manage to track down the appropriate original test paperwork, I think we'd all be interested to know that you had succeeded.

That is no problem - Will do

Andy

[delaplume]

Dec 14, 2019 10:39:14 GMT overner said:

Hi Alan - There is a short YouTube video earlier in the thread, bottom of page 2 ..

Thanks .. Andy

Oh yes----I'd forgotten about that,  cheers !!

Alan 

[jo479]

Now on ebay for £2300 item no 184133860861, interesting?

[overner]

Jan 18, 2020 19:37:18 GMT jo479 said:

Now on ebay for £2300 item no 184133860861, interesting?

I just checked and it is still in my workshop 😉 the description reeks of scammers ..

[jo479]

Now that is interesting, they've used your photographs as well, I wonder what they'd do if somebody wanted to view it.

[overner]

Looks like the user ID has been hacked and it's easy enough to download images from sold or completed items ..

[jma1009]

I followed up the eBay link provided - someone ought to report this to eBay?

Andy, have you had any further thoughts or developments your end? (Apart from the eBay scam).

I now have my own 5"g Terrier on the kitchen table with the chassis being partly dismantled, prior to a few jobs and sorting out in due course the painting of the inside of the chassis components as with red lead oxide primer on some the vermilion turned claret!

Cheers,

Julian

[overner]

Yes I have reported the item to eBay as being fraudulent Julian .. I have run a hydraulic test using the hand pump in the LH tank and there is a bad leak under the boiler saddle but I have yet to determine exactly where from. I thought perhaps the regulator was allowing water to pass but having inserted a thin gasket between the valve faces, the issue still persists. Investigations continuing ...

[stevep]

Jan 18, 2020 21:05:11 GMT overner said:

Jan 18, 2020 19:37:18 GMT jo479 said:

Now on ebay for £2300 item no 184133860861, interesting?

I just checked and it is still in my workshop 😉 the description reeks of scammers ..

My wife suggested that this may be "steal to order". Get the sale arranged, then steal the loco and move it on as fast as possible.

May want to beef up your security - just in case.

[overner]

Thanks for that Steve ... It was recently moved into the house .. Luckily my wife thinks it is a "pretty little thing" .. I can't argue with that ....😉

[jma1009]

Hi Andy,

You perhaps ought to borrow the boiler test rig used by Steve?

The Martin Evans design is not easy I presume to get up to test pressure as the steam pipe to steam chest cannot easily be blanked off and is pretty much inaccessible without special spanners/tooling. (I altered the design so the steam pipe into the steam chest is forward of the blast pipe, and only requires a copper disc to be added between flat union from the hot header to the top of the steam pipe to steam chest, easily accessible from the smokebox door opening).

Blanking off the wet header is the other alternative, as I've never made a regulator that will seal for a boiler test.

Years ago, things were less strict on a boiler test; a leaky regulator valve resulted in vigorous pumping on the test rig, whilst the smokebox slowly filled up with water via the blastpipe as the cylinders and steamchest filled up with water; these days are now gone!

The test rig I mentioned ought to be able to couple up to one of the front boiler check valves, with ball in the check valve removed.

Making up a blanking fitting for the wet header with the wet header and superheater etc assembly removed ought to be quite easy, but if you have the special tooling on a Martin Evans Terrier to remove the connection with the steam pipe to steam chest, required for the above, you have the alternative of testing the super heaters as well. (I have a large tobacco tin full of such special tools for one of my locos).

Cheers,

Julian

[overner]

As with a lot of people, the lockdown has given me time to work on the Terrier and having drawn a blank trying to find any copies of boiler certificates etc. and who performed the shell test, with phone calls and emails not returned, I decided to remove the boiler (it only took around 2 hours so quite pleased) and it has been tested to 2x working pressure and passed first time. As the superheater was removed, it too passed a hydraulic test.



So the plan now is to re-assemble it as the IOW A1X Terrier 'Fishbourne'. It already has the extended coal bunker and front sandboxes under the footplate, so a few details to add and of course the repaint ... I am aware of the Martin Evans design errors but this will not be a scale model, but hopefully a good representation ...



Thanks .. Andy

[jma1009]

Hi Andy,

I am very pleased to read your update. Well done! You will beat me to having the first 5"g Terrier on the IWMES track at Broadfields. All the angst and worry is now over for you over the boiler, and you have a lovely loco with a new boiler certificate, and common sense has prevailed.

Cheers,

Julian

[uuu]

It's clearly no longer any old loco: it's your loco. So I think the satisfaction of running it will be all the greater.

Wilf