99 3462 Build diary

[uuu]

Jul 15, 2024 11:11:28 GMT RGR 60130 said:

If you go to the bottom of the Home Page you’ll find a section called ‘Forum Information and Statistics’. In the sub-section called ‘Threads and Posts’ there’s a link called ‘Recent Posts’. Clicking on that link will bring up every recent post in chronological order. I tend to stay logged in and just refresh the page every day. That way I don’t have to do any dotting about.

Reg

Or...

In the same place there's a link "Recent Threads". This is the page I have bookmarked, and it shows threads with a "New" flag on any that are active. I mark boring threads as "Mark as read - forever" and this supresses the new flag, so I can see them near the top of the list, but I can leave them alone.

Wilf

Edit - this is the same as Normm's link.

[chris vine]

Thank you Norm, Reg and Wilf,

Every day is a learning day. That will save me so much time, and now it doesn't matter how the forum is organised!
I have made that the new link in my bookmark for the forum.

All best
Chris.

[dhamblin]

It doesn't matter where it sits Malcolm - we'll seek it out

Good to see more progress.

Regards,

Dan

[jma1009]

Hi Malcolm,

I would keep this thread where it is. It’s a special build and not a generic build of Winson or such like.

It is also more likely to be seen on the ‘General’ threads section.

Just my own thoughts of course. I for one might easily miss your updates if else where on this forum.

Cheers,
Julian

[mbrown]

Well, "the people" have spoken, and the result is inconclusive!

But as the original question led to a useful lesson in managing the various threads on the forum, I guess the thread location doesn't matter so much and I will stick with the status quo, at least for now, and leave the build diary on the General Chat pages.

Thanks to all who shared their thoughts.

Maybe before long I'll find time to make more workshop progress to report....

Best wishes

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Front running board bracketry

Time is at a premium right now, but I have managed the odd hour here and there in the workshop over recent weeks.

The front running boards are properly in place now. As in full size, they are supported by small angle brackets at the cylinder end. These are almost invisible unless one bends right down, so mine are folded rather than the rather complicated angle and rivet design of the prototype.


DSC00411 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The flash, at close range, picks up every blemish - it really looks much better than this!


20240728_161846 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


At the buffer beam end, there are brackets for the steam heating valves - for some reason, 99 3462 and one or two other MPSB locos had steam heat connections on left and right of the buffer beams, whereas other locos had only one. The valves are a bit complicated and I will have a go at making them another day - but the brackets were cut from a short section of 1" square x 1/16" thick hollow steel tube. The holes were marked out and drilled on each of the four faces, then a bit of careful sawing turned it into four identical angled pieces (two are for the tender).


20240728_165738 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The German lamp brackets are lost wax castings from Knupfer in Germany. The base of the lamp sits around the tapered upstanding part, and a square peg on the base of the lamp locates in the hole in the top. I haven't fixed them permanently yet as I want to be sure the lamps can be lifted on and off Ok - which means making the lamps at some point.

Not a lot of progress, but the workshop now goes quiet for a few weeks while I have a few weeks driving on the Talyllyn.

Best wishes


Malcolm

[mbrown]

Pump Piping


Back from holidays - and back in the workshop for a bit.

Having lifted the boiler from the frames to trim some of the cleading which was fouling the running boards, it seemed like a good moment to do the piping to and from the pump which lies under the smokebox and can't easily be reached with the boiler in place. The pump is under the smokebox with its valve box just behind the front buffer beam and the pipes have to negotiate the solid vertical stretchers which form a box between the cylinders. I made provision for this when making the stretchers and they have suitable holes to take union fittings.


20240901_164459 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


Here is a view from below with the horizontal stretcher, which is part of the box between the cylinders, removed. The inlet pipe has a union pointing rearwards and runs to the lower fitting on the pump valve box. You can see the outlet pipe curling down between the cylinders with its union awaiting a pipe to connect it to the pump.


20240901_173012 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


This is looking from above with both inlet and outlet piped up.


20240901_174528 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


Above shows the outlet emerging below the smokebox and above the running boards. In full size, this was the steam heating connection with piping running back to the cab. I will use it for water, connecting to a by-pass valve in the cab. The inlet pipe will take the route which, in full size, is the flange watering supply pipe, clipped to the bottom of some of the stretchers between the rear of the smokebox and the rear axle. It will be a tad oversize - I will use thin wall 1/8" stainless tube which is about the same bore as the 5/32" tube used for the rest of the pump piping and should be fairly robust.


20240901_174332 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


Finally, here is another view from below with the horizontal stretcher in the process of being replaced - fitted with raised head countersunk screws to simulate the low-headed rivets on the prototype - the rivet heads are visible in full size if looking from a low angle - I am hoping the slots in mine won't show!


Best wishes

Malcolm

[jma1009]

Hi Malcolm,

A very dinky pump!

Did you consider a banjo attachment to the top of it, or is that what you did as the pics are not too clear on this?

How are you getting on with the last of the Welsh Steam coal on the Talyllyn? There has been a lot of controversy about this in the local South Wales press, and just at the point that Ffos y Fran got to the very best seams of steam coal (Caerphilly Observer 22nd August). Does the Talyllyn have any qualms about buying a large amount of coal from Ffos y Fran when the whole deep open cast mining very close to Merthyr and Dowlais leaves a huge problem because the money supposed to be set aside for the reclamation of the land is lacking?

Cheers,
Julian

[mbrown]

Thanks Julian.

It's not all that dinky - 5/16" bore x 5/16" stroke. I reckon that should maintain the water level in the boiler, especially given the small diameter of the wheels and thus the rate of stroke. On my Bagnall, albeit a smaller loco, a 1/8" crosshead pump beats the boiler.

I didn't think of a banjo fitting - on reflection, it could have been a viable option. Despite being hidden under the smoke box, once the plating between the buffer beam and smoke box is lifted, the pump is secured by two 4BA nuts and can then be wangled out. A banjo might have made that a bit easier, but too late now.

Last winter, the TR bought as much coal from Ffos-y-fan as we could accommodate at Wharf. It looked a great deal but I guess we've got through nearly 3/4 of it and the remainder won't get us far into next season. I was at the Rheidol a few weeks ago and I gather they have managed to get some decent coal from Poland - but no idea of the cost or whether it would suit the much smaller fireboxes on the TR. We did try a different lot of ovoids on No.1 a week or two ago - apparently it was OK provided the fire was kept very thick, but as with the bio-mass fuel last year, they needed an extra supply of coal taking to Abergynolwyn by van to ensure they could get the train home - not very ecological... So I'm not sure what the plan for next year, or longer term, is.

Best wishes

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Incidentally Julian, details of my pump are near the bottom of p.7 of this thread - from which I see that the bore is 7/16" not 5/16" - shows how memory can lapse in the 4 years since I made it!

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Valve Gear Components


Although I haven't posted for over a month, I have not been totally idle, having grabbed the odd hour or two in the workshop whenever time permitted. It felt like time to get to grips with the valve gear. The dimensions were settled by applying Don Ashton's principles for inside-admission Walschaerts gear, and I am hoping it will therefore work!

My main puzzle was with the radius rods. I had these laser cut in one plane (by Ed at MEL, naturally) but that then raised interesting questions about how to hold them securely for the subsequent operations to apply the profile to the other dimension. Here is what they looked like as received from MEL and after cleaning up.


20241005_152230 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The shadows are a bit confusing, but you can see the slot for the expansion link and the beginnings of the rectangular section behind the expansion link which carries a slide block which raises and lowers the rod in the link. They are cut from 8 mm plate, but the 8 mm dimension won't exist when I have finished.

The first job was to drill pilot holes for the die block pin and the pin at the top of the combination lever while holding the rod by the parallel 8 mm section in the machine vice. The holes were spaced accurately using the DRO.


20241005_155201 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


In the end, the solution to holding the rods for the next operation was quite straightforward once I had thought of it. The front end of the rods had been left over-long by about an inch and a vertical hole (4 BA clearance) was drilled through this surplus material. Using a 4 BA cap screw here, and another through the expansion link slot, they were screwed down to a piece of 3/8" BMS plate which was clamped to the milling machine table as below.


20241005_163228 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


(The holes and gouges in my milling machine table have been remarked on before in this thread - they were not of my doing, but the table is flat and I got a decent sized mill for a price I could afford!) In the picture above, I have just taken the thickness of the rod down to the correct position behind the front hole, leaving the extra thickness for the bearing at that end.


The next step was to reduce the thickness of the rectangular slide bar behind the expansion link pin. This needed to be 4 mm deep, so 2 mm were to come off each side of the 8 mm bar. The first was done easily enough, then the rod was inverted on the jig, a piece of 2 mm brass plate used as packing under the side just milled, and another 2 mm cut taken using very light cuts.


20241005_170426 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The centre of the rod, around the die block pin, is the full 8 mm width but the rest needed to come down to just over 6 mm. That was straightforward, although I had to use very light cuts to avoid the rod vibrating, especially on the second side where it was only held down to the plate beneath at the two extreme ends.


20241005_181102 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The taper on the rod's profile is all on the underside. For this, I removed the plate, with the rod still attached, from the milling table and held it in the machine vice at the correct angle (determined by holding a bent scriber in the chuck and lining up the plate until the scriber traversed the correct line). By swapping over the rods without moving the plate in the vice, both came out identical.


20241006_145949 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The final stage was to round off the end and the boss around the die block pin, using an upright pin in the vice and rotating the rod against an end mill in the time-honoured way. I didn't photograph that bit....

And here they are after cleaning up, and adding a bronze bush to the front pin hole with a No. 60 oil hole. They will get a bit more treatment with the fine emery sticks, especially the slide bar at the rear which ought to have a polished finish.


20241006_171605 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


I have also made the combination levers and union links by much the same methods, cutting the forks with a side and face cutter. The union links have been beefed up a bit from the prototype dimensions which are, to my mind, very flimsy, especially the forks which would scale at only 1 mm thick. They look odd anyway, in full size, as for some reason all the thinning down is on the top of the link making it look banana shaped. I haven't yet bushed the bottom pin of the combination levers as I suspect I may have to make them again. By trying to make them out of 1/4" x 3/8" gauge plate, I didn't have quite enough width to get the offset on the fork quite right. I will need to check alignments when I start assembling it all. Meanwhile, I must get some 1/4" x 1/2" material for replacements.


20241005_152104 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


Anyway, progress at last. Die blocks next, I guess....

Best wishes

Malcolm

[ettingtonliam]

I get embarrassed every time Malcolm has close up shots of the mill table, because it was me that sold it to him!

It wasn't me that did the damage, honest!. It had been in a foundry pattern shop (I think) and they had mostly used it as a drilling machine but been brutal with the table. You think its bad now, you should have seen it when I got it! I had about 1/8" skimmed off the top of it which got rid of the majority of the damage, and no, it didn't warp. The guy who skimmed it reckoned it was really tough, probably a semi steel rather than cast iron.

[mbrown]

Die Blocks

Having done the radius rods and the expansion links, the obvious next step is to make the die blocks which connect the two.

Until I acquired a substantial rotary table, I filed up my die blocks to fit the links, but the rotary table allows me to machine them with much greater accuracy. Step one was to mark out a piece of steel plate, centred on the rotary table, with a 6BA tapped hole exactly the radius of the expansion link away from the centre. This was easy with the DRO. I then used a 6 BA bolt and a double-coil spring washer to bolt down a disc of 3/8" bronze to the steel bar. It put a thinner disc of bronze underneath the embryo die block as a sacrificial spacer so that the end mill could cut the full depth of the die block without carving slots in the steel. The spring washer held it all firmly enough to stay put while I took very light cuts. Here is the arrangment below.


20241013_153619 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


And here is a close up as the die block starts to take shape by turning the rotary table against an end mill.


20241013_153629 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The die block was milled down on two sides until it just began to enter the expansion link. The top and bottom were then squared off with the end mill and, after unbolting it, a rub with a dead smooth file took off the milling marks and made it a nice shake-free fit in the link. An oil hole and reservoir in the top, and it was ready to fit. The photo below shows how it all fits together in the slot in the radius rod and with the link pivot plate and bearing attached.


20241013_170444 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


Finally, here are all the bits with one side assembled and the other in pieces. Making those two little die blocks and assembling them in the links etc. took all afternoon....


20241013_170330 by malcolm brown, on Flickr

Best wishes

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Radius Rod Sliders

...I can't really think of anything else to call them. They lift the radius rods through a pin mounted on the lifting arm from the weigh shaft and the radius rod slides backward and forward in the slider. When Andrew Barclay pirated the basic Orenstein and Koppel 0-4-0 design during WW1, they made the extension to the radius rod round and the slider could therefore be a simple turned bush. TR Nos. 6 and 7 have that arrangement. But when O&K built 99 3462 in 1934, they made the end of the radius rod rectangular in section, so I needed to make sliders with rectangular holes to match. You can see them on the left in the picture of the valve gear below.


lokomotive-1985 by malcolm brown, on Flickr



They work out at 5/16" thick, and I had hoped I might pick up a suitable offcut of bronze or gunmetal at the Midlands Exhibition on Thursday, but no luck. However, I had a short length of 1" square bronze bar in stock and so I parted off two 5/16" slices from that. These then had a 5 mm slot milled in them to suit the radius rod, somewhat deeper than the actual slot that was needed. I then machined up small blocks from the same bar so that they just slid into the slot, clamped them onto the radius rod and drilled two 1/16" holes to secure the pieces with copper rivets. Here they are before drilling and riveting.


20241019_170248 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The blocks were then silver soldered into the slots and all but a small amount of the base of the blocks milled away to bring the base to the right height, in the course of which the rivets were eliminated. They were then drilled for the pivot hole for the lifting arm pin and parts of the top milled away to start revealing the profile.


20241019_181550 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The full size item has a circular oil box on top covered with a tin lid secured from getting lost by a chain. This is far too fiddly in my scale so I turned the top to the dimensions of the lid and put an oil hole in the top with a moderate sized oil reservoir. Finally, the ends were milled around until the cutter just broke into the sides of the slot, thus representing the separate bronze slippers which are a feature of the full-size loco.


20241019_202439 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


A very little easing with a fine-cut needle file enabled one to slide very nicely onto its radius rod. On the other, I had slightly overdone the silver solder which had run into the slot to create a tiny fillet in the bottom corners. These needed a bit more work to remove, but before long both fitted snugly on their respective rods.

Another small item ticked off the list....

Best wishes

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Weighshaft Bearings

The weighshaft is carried in plummer block-type bearings above the running boards. The photo below shows the one on the right hand of the loco with the lifting arm on the right and the arm connected to the reversing rod to the left of the bearing. The balance spring is a post-preservation addition. Clearly, dismantling this assembly requires the bearings to be split so that things can be taken apart without removing the three arms from the shaft.


DSC00463 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


I started with a block of bronze, 5/16" thick and an inch long and cut a 5/16" slot down the middle with a slot drill. I then found a similar sized piece a little thinner and milled steps down each side so that the tongue mated with the slot in the other piece. I was making all this from oddments I had in stock and I think the second piece is aluminium bronze - it looks like brass but is a lot harder. Four holes were marked out using the DRO and, after drilling in the lower piece were transferred to the second.



20241020_161747 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


These were then bolted together, chucked in the four-jaw, centred on the split between the two halves, then drilled and reamed for the 1/4" diameter shaft, leaving a small boss on both ends.

20241020_164312 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


I then sawed the piece down the middle to make two bearings, chucked each of them with the sawn side outwards and faced them same as the first sides. A bit of work with a file rounded off the bosses around the studs, and the oil boxes, exactly like those on the expansion link bearings, were made up from 1/4" square brass and silver soldered in place. A little salt in the flux ensured that the solder flowed on the aluminium bronze (if that is what it was).


20241020_185431 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


The oil boxes still need their little swivel lids, again like those on the expansion link bearings, but I ran out of time. Making those two little bearings accounted for just 4 hours' work.

I'm away for a while now, doing my final rostered turns as a driver on the Talyllyn having reached the official retirement age. Tough, but better than being politely told you are too senile to cope.... Back to firing next season, possibly rostered with drivers who weren't born when I got my driver's ticket... I am feeling rather ancient.

Best wishes

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Weighshaft arms


Well, a week ago I drove my last rostered turn on the Talyllyn - having reached three-score years and ten, I revert next season to firing, in some cases no doubt, to drivers who weren't born when I got my driver's ticket.... Anno domini. Here I am about to leave Wharf with No.2 Dolgoch.


20241103_100619 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


This weekend I managed some time in the workshop again. First job was to re-make the combination levers, trying this time to get the slot offsets right, having obtained some suitable section GFS. I managed one, but on the second, I had a dig in with the endmill and damaged it beyond reclamation. Unfortunately, with GFS coming in 9" lengths, I had fractionally too little left to start again. So another order will have to go in for a new length of stock.

I also made the three arms to go on the weighshaft. The making was unexceptional so I didn't take any pictures until they were done. I have assembled them as a trial on a length of 1/4" steel to get the centres right before pinning them. Here is a close up, although there are no pins as yet to connect to the radius rod slide and the bearing block is only lodged in place.


20241110_180532 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


And here is an over view to show how they are all arranged.


20241110_180439 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


Next job will be to locate the bearing blocks accurately and bolt them, down, then align the arms and pin them. The prototype had visible keys to fix the arms to the weighshaft and I will reproduce those as I did with the brake gear some time ago.

Best wishes

Malcolm

[mbrown]

Combination Levers

Today, on the third attempt, I have made a pair of acceptable combination levers.

The first attempt came out OK except that, by trying to get them out of a bit of Gauge Plate that was a bit too narrow, the offsets came out wrong. On the second attempt, I had the right dimension material but got a dig in with the end mill which ruined the outer face. Today, it came out alright. I avoided taking too much metal off with the end mill by drilling away a lot of the material to be removed first.

The prototype combination lever is exceptionally slender in thickness - about 15 mm when I measured it - and the fork at the top is "lop sided" with a much wider jaw on the outside than the inside. The photo below is the only one I have that really shows this.


Combination Lever by malcolm brown, on Flickr


I made mine thicker - cowardice, perhaps, and in Gauge plate it may have been strong enough, but it is not a dimension that is obvious so I went for safety. As with all my valve gear parts, I drilled the pin holes in the mill using the DRO.


20241109_170004 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


I didn't photograph the next stages, but I first slotted the end with a 3/16" slitting saw (I didn't have a 7/32" one so had to take two bites), drilled out much of the "thickness" that had to be removed, and brought it to size with an end mill, finally rounding the ends in the usual way by rotating against an end mill. The full size ones are slightly thicker around the bottom pin and I have reproduced that by putting a shoulder on the bronze bush.


20241117_180324 by malcolm brown, on Flickr


They could do with a bit more cleaning up with emery sticks, but I will do that when I have opened out the top holes to take their pins - at present, I am not sure whether to insert them from the back or the front so I have left the holes undersize for now.

They don't look quite like the full size ones because my valve gear, to Don Ashton principles, has a much greater lap and lead movement than the prototype - I am very surprised how little movement there is at the top of the full size combination lever, but that's how it is.

Just two small parts after a whole afternoon in the workshop, but more progress each time....

Best wishes

Malcolm