Small CNC Router - software?

[iant]

I took advantage of 'Black Friday' to order a small CNC router, which is en-route and which I presume has a GRBL-based controller.



I will be using Solid Edge as my CAD tool, intially to generate DXF files of small (2D) brass parts. I'll also be looking at routing larger 3mm ply in time and perhaps 3D objects once I've got some experience...



I've been looking at software options - I guess the equivalent of a 'slicer' in 3D printing. Someone recommended Deskproto which I've downloaded but before I really dive in, i wondered if some one here had any other suggestions...??



Regards,





IanT

[uuu]

I use CamBam to generate G-code from the DXF files, from SolidEdge - and it works fine for me. But this is 2D. It does 3D, I believe, but I've not tried that.

It's free to start with - then still free for small jobs (1000 lines of code). I've paid for it, to remove the limitation.

Wilf

[Neale]

I use mainly Solid Edge for larger design work (typically anything involving assemblies) but Fusion 360 for simpler designs (often for 3D printing or single items) and for CAM - that is, toolpath generation. CAM is the machining equivalent of slicing in the 3D printer world. F360 is also free and is a pretty powerful 3D CAD tool as well having its CAM module.

The free version of F360 CAM has some restrictions compared with the paid version. It does not generate rapid moves, for example when repositioning the tool between cuts, and does not support tool changes within a single tool path file. This applies even when you do not have an automatic toolchanger. However, there is a free plug-in available which overcomes these two restrictions and I use F360 CAM a lot. Works well for me for both my CNC mill and my CNC router. Just renovating a CNC lathe so shall be trying its turning CAM sometime soon...

However, both F360 and SE allow you to export a 3D model which you can use with pretty much any other CAM package (athough I'm not sure that there are any free ones that are quite up to F360's CAM module) but plenty of people prefer these other CAM applications even at some modest or not-so-modest cost. I'm sure that you will get plenty of recommendations from other people's preferences!

[iant]

Thanks Wilf, I'll have a closer look at CAMBAM. From their website it looks similar to Deskpronto in capability but also seems to handle 'drilling' better (which I think may be more restricted in DP?)

I know that Fusion has CAM capability Neale but having spent some time learning Solid Edge, I'm a little reluctant to learn Fusion too. I tried Fusion prior to SE and (for whatever reason) I didn't really seem to get on with it. I can't remember the exact details/reasons now, it was well over three years ago. Someone on another forum had mentioned Deskpronto, so I downloaded the free version. I don't have anything else to compare it with at this time It's 'Wizard' seems a useful get-you-going aid for any dummy (like myself) that just want's to get something fairly simple done to begin with. There do seem to be a lot of options in this 2D CAM area, both free and paid for.

Regards,


IanT

[jasonb]

I too use Fusion for my CAM and Alibre for the CAD

Don't think of F360 as learning another CAD system as whatever you choose for 2/ 3D will be learning YOUR FIRST CAM program. I can do a basic bit of design in F360 but I have not learnt how to us ethe majority of it just the CAM side which is what I need. If you start learning a 2D CAD package you will then have to learn a 3D one be it F360 or something else so why not just learn one from the start that does both 2D and 3D such as F360.

Even for 2D work having a 3D model makes things easier as you don't have to start entering heights and thicknesses manually, you simply click a horizontal surface or specify a depth relative to heights on the model eg Xmm below the bottom and the CAM knows where the bottom is.

As your router's spindle speed will allow reasonably fast feed rates then the loss of rapids may be less of an issue than someone using a slower rotating mill based machine, there are also other ways around it such as setting the non-engagement speed higher than the cutting feed when using adaptive cuts or as mentioned getting round the restriction in other ways. Not being able to group different tools into one g-code is not really an issue as you will need to be stood infront of the machine to change the cutter so an extra 15seconds to close one code and open the next is not worth worrying about, it only really comes into it if using an autochanger.

[iant]

I knew you used both Alibre & Fusion Jason but had assumed that you had managed to master both from the CAD side too, so that's a very useful comment.

I have been looking at what Deskpronto can do (at least the Free version) and (if I understand correctly) it doesn't seem to do 'drilling' as such (?) which is something that I obviously would very much like to do. Also interested to hear your view about importing 2D vs 3D files into Fusion CAM.

A question for you please. What 3D 'file' type are you exporting from Alibre CAD into Fusion CAM?

BTW There was a knock on the door from Royal Mail a little earlier and my WM3020 is now sat (still in it's box) out in the hall. I wasn't expecting it for about another week, so great service from Fox Alien. Will have to unbox it later, as I've been given some 'House' jobs to do first :-(

Regards,


IanT

[jasonb]

Probably not a case of not having managed to use F360 CAD but just not felt the need to dig that deep as I'm happy with Alibre and have a lot of stuff there that there is little point in starting to use anything else for CAD. Sometimes if I want to alter an imported file after I have done the CAM I will use F360 for that rather than import a freshly altered file and have to start again. I do sometimes use F360's render to make a part look good.

F360 is quite good for drilling, for starters it has a big library of both metric and imperial drills with speed options for many materials (not sure if you can control the speed of your machine from the CAM) which can be used as the basis for starters and tweaked as needed. You then have various options such as drilling straight through, pausing the feed to break the swarf and even peck drilling which will lift the drill out at intervals. All these parameters can be adjusted.

Some full retract peck drilling here
youtu.be/FUoFZNd8ebI?si=Q3e9uhXMtjmCnetG

If a hole gets larger than you can use a milling cutter to "bore" You just need to click the edge of the hole so it knows which one, choose your cutter and then the CAM will see the tool feed down in a helix to what depth or part depth you want then gradually enlarge the hole as it works round and round in ever increasing diameter with a final finish pass to complete the hole.

A bit of boring here
youtu.be/GH23zia1M58?si=7-_-Pr4-yFGRCFA7&t=58

As I model everything in 3D it is one step to export it as a 3D file. If I want 2D then I have to produce the 2D from my 3D in Alibre and then export the 2D. As the 2D is only an outline I then have to remember the thicknesses and depths but with a 3D that all gets carried over so no need to enter any numbers which could lead to errors and at the very least can mean going back and forth between two programs.

I export a STEP file which is suffixed .STP and is easier to deal with than than an STL which you may have used for 3D printing. It is only a couple of clicks to produce the STEP from the Alibre part file.

[iant]

Ok, I'll give it a go Jason, thanks.

Solid Edge supports lots of export file types and .STP is one of them - so that is what I'll try.

The WM2030 is assembled but not powered up as yet. Had a busy day and now feeling a bit tired. I was very pleased with the build quality and slightly suprised at the weight. I can just about lift it and it's certainly very solid. The gantry just on it's own is quite heavy and I wondered if the side pieces were steel but they're not magnetic, so I guess not - it's just the linear rails adding to it's weight I guess.

Regards,


IanT

[jasonb]

Have a look at these videos for the basics of using F360 CAM it is what I picked it up from. Screen layout is slightly different now but basically the same methods. Once your part is imported go to "manufacture" from the top left dropdown.

www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL40d7srwyc_OmRH4UQ_E-6UB-GbhPdjc8

[iant]

Excellent, I will watch some of them later Jason - Thank You.

Another busy day today, driving Herself to M&S for pre-Christmas shopping. I'm already feeling poorer but with my new WM3020 sitting on the kitchen table, I'm wise enough to just follow along and smile agreeably as the trolley fills.... :-)

Regards,


IanT

[Neale]

I also export 3D models from SE to F360 - it's a straightforward process using .stp format. F360 will accept 2D DXF files - but you end up having to incorporate them into a sketch which you then extrude into a 3D shape. I have had to do this when asked to produce some items which only existed as 2D CAD drawings although fortunately they were essentially sheet items easily extruded to thickness. Actually, that particular project showed the value of being able to produce drilling toolpaths - I clamped the stock to an MDF spoil board, drilled the designed holes first, then used those to screw down the work for profiling with no clamps getting in the way.

I did take a look at both Deskproto and CAMBAM and didn't see anything that would make me move away from F360 CAM - but that is a reflection of the fact that we all adapt to suit what we have available! I've been using F360 for some years now and it's difficult to know whether "different" equates to better or worse...

In any case - hope you enjoy the new machine. CNC is great and I wouldn't be without it. Just have a spare tool to hand when doing any critical work...

[iant]

I did take note of your comment about using both SE & Fusion Neale but I needed little another nudge towards Fusion CAM from Jason really. I downloaded F360 last night for another look-see.

Then I imported a simple 3D Solid Edge part, translated into a .STP file, which opened immediately in Fusion without problems. I must agree that this does seem easier than the .DXF 2D method. Still struggling a bit with setting things up in F360-CAM but I'm still in the process of working through the videos that Jason suggested. I've also loaded Candle and spent a litle time looking at that. Not sure if I will use it, looks initially easier than UGS but I suspect UGS is the more powerful tool once you know how to use it. Lot's to learn!

Regards,


IanT

[jasonb]

Feel free to ask any questions you have about F360

[uuu]

Or CamBam.

Wilf

[Neale]

Can't pretend that F360 CAM is simple - but it is very powerful! As ever with complex software, the trick seems to be identifying the bits you need to know and the bits you can safely ignore, at least at first. I also use Vectric Vcarve which seems to be mainly aimed at woodworkers. It's not cheap but it is very well thought-out with the aim of making things as easy as possible for users who don't really want to be bothered with too much choice. 10% of the user interface but it can do 90% or more of what you might want to do. But not entirely suitable for engineering which is why we end up using software that is rather more complex.

Sounds as if there is some CAMBAM expertise on tap if you end up going down that route but I can't say I've heard very many people talking about DeskProto on this forum, unlike CAMBAM. That might say something about the products concerned and their application to model engineering.

[iant]

I'm working with F360-CAM currently Neale. If I can figure it out, then that's what I'll use going foreward.

Unfotunately (from a 'Learning CNC' pov) we've got a lot of other stuff going on over the next few days and I probably won't get an opportunity to play. Hopefully, there will be a lull in 'activity' between now and Christmas though... :-)

Regards,


IanT

[Neale]

I'm currently rebuilding the electronics in a CNC lathe so I shall soon be fighting F360 "turning" CAM. Another learning curve to climb!

[jasonb]

Is it cutting yet

[iant]

Only 'air' thus far I'm afraid Jason but at least I didn't break any tools! :-)



I've decided I need do a few things before I progressed too much further - like an enclosure and spoil board for instance. The worktop space in my (indoor) workshop is quite limited and where I had placed the machine initially fitted the actual router but not it's associated control box. This is fairly large and (to my mind) has it's connections on the wrong side. So a 'CNC stand' (a re-cycled bedside cabinet) is being constructed, complete with castors. The wiring loom will also need some alteration such that the controls are at the front.



Meanwhile my YouTube studies continue...



Regards,





IanT

[racinjason]

I use F360 for both CAD/CAM my mill uses G-code and the visual code editor program that attached is nice to use, I edit all my programs to turn outputs on/off and have written complete programs to mill/turn I recommend spending the time with it.
Regards Jason.