markt
Active Member
Posts: 17
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Post by markt on Oct 20, 2005 14:24:00 GMT
Hi Steve
I have read your problem list with much interest and am very relieved that i bought a 14xx from Modelworks and not Winson. I have had very few issues with the build of my loco and have thoroughly enjoyed assembling it. It went together very smoothly and it was as advertised and needed only hand tools to constuct (I am not lucky enough to owm mills and lathes). I do think a little more information could be given in the instructions and they could make more use of photographs but apart from that i am totally satisfied. Sometimes it is all to easy for us budding model engineers to tar people with the same brush. Just to make you a little pig sick - I received my final kit 2 weeks ago and my safety valves followed slightly later at the end of last week. Once fitted i had the engine in steam and pulling 3 adults comfortably this weekend - and still some Winson customers are waiting 5+ years later! Regards Mark.
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Oct 21, 2005 17:27:31 GMT
Mark,
Good to here the Modelworks 1400's are up to the standard you would expect. Hopefully mine shouldn't be to long till its finally completed to a sensible condition as I have found someone to sort my Pistons and they should be getting engineered to a working condition over the next few weeks! One interesting point to note is that on inspection the bores have been found to be elliptical....another brilliant piece of machining by Winson to match the pistons heads!
Steve
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Nov 4, 2005 21:35:41 GMT
Hello All, Well having found a lovely little company to sort out my pistons I now have them back and with any luck will have them back in the frames and hopefully everything else bolted back together for a test run on the rollers on Monday We decided to use a company called Lynx ModelWorks, who are absolutely brilliant. The bores have been sorted I with some boring out, polishing, new complete pistons with cast iron rings, auto drain cocks fitted, new 'o' rings, machining of the valves and faces and finally some minor bolt and thread related adjustments. While this was being done I also acquired a few castings from AJ Reeves 2000, the sand boxes and petticoat pipe which have been filling and machining to suit and am currently in the process of fitting these bits, but may have to go on hold while I reassemble and test it! I will hopefully get round to writing up my problems bit on the pistons and any other bits Ive missed once Ive completed this stage and can get round to painting it, providing it all finally works! Steve
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Post by Phil Sutton on Nov 8, 2005 19:24:25 GMT
Any updates yet Steve?
Phil
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Nov 9, 2005 22:31:44 GMT
Yes indeed,
I had a successful test run, the petticoat pipe I've fitted helps a lot with steaming but more importantly the pistons and block are Brilliant!! The work done to them is Absolutely fantastic, I will put some pics with some more details up sometime tomorrow...
Just a few modifications and adjustments to make and dare I say it, but I think I'm on the home stretch to a fully working powerful little loco!
Steve
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Nov 21, 2005 17:23:39 GMT
I ran the loco at our club track last Thursday and all went very well indeed, it happily made steam with it even blowing off while on the move, which is a first! Nice and powerful easily pulling me and my bro around only difficulty is trying to keep enough water in the boiler and good steam generation without stopping! Some photos can be found here: sjtown.fotopic.net/1400The only problem I came across was with the coal the smoke box was half filled with ash which was made up of bits around 4-5mm across in size just small enough to get through the tubes, this was also the remains in the fire after a go round the loop and this also clogged the ash pan up frequently due to the size of the lumps, any ideas? Only got to do the cosmetics now and get a ticket for the boiler and its done! Steve
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Post by Phil Sutton on Nov 21, 2005 20:29:28 GMT
Good to see your loco in action Steve.I didn't realise that there was a casting for the petticoat pipe,I shall have to slip over to Reeves....I presume it's from "Didcot"? The only thing I can suggest is that your coal is a bit friable,what are you using? Otherwise you will just have to empty the smokebox every other trip and keep raking out the ashpan.
Phil
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Mar 31, 2006 21:28:35 GMT
Thought I would update followers on my progress as I haven’t posted about it for a while. I haven’t done as much as I would like to on the loco since the test runs as previously mentioned, but have got some essentials done. I have completed fabrication of the sanders and taken the narrowing pipe, I put in the exhaust nozzle, out to stop the draw on the fire sucking the 6-8mm pieces of coal/ash through, plus some smaller cosmetic issues. We brought some Anthracite coal for testing against the steam coal we had, but the testing never really happened due to time restraints. I also gained a mechanical oiler with ratchet bearing from steam-fittings.co.uk and made adjustments to the body and pipe work to fit. All these finally came to a conclusion last weekend we had the boiler tested at out local club. (http://www.rmmes.co.uk - a picture of me (on right) with my back to the camera is on front page at the time of writing) To my amazement the boiler held all 180psi for its hydraulic test as the old ticket ran out last May I think. The blower let some water through and there were some beads around the banjo bolt for the regulator, but that’s not surprising seeing as its been in and out of the boiler many times, with the same original washers! With that passed we steamed it up and it passed the steam test perfectly, although the hand pub promptly got a massive air lock (I think) and wouldn’t work, which was a typical example of my luck as it has Never not worked before! With some clack valve knocking and meditation it randomly started working again! At this point the injector insisted not to work, which irritated me even more as I had spent months figuring out why it wouldn’t work, plus it had been in Kilrock K for a month! Seeing as you only need two water input devices I was confident the axel pub would be fine as its not been a problem either.... but no, it took a good 10 mins of running up and down to clear the air out of the system and get water out of the bypass. With both these now working it had passed both its tests just before the injector started working (!) and several years hard work was insight! I ran around for half an hour or so to test the coal and the oiler, the coal was a mixture of both anthracite and steam coal and seemed to perform well, the resulting ash was fine and well ash like, not '0' gauge coal size like! The oiler worked perfectly, well more then perfectly, big black dots everywhere and not just on the loco (!), plus a nice thick black oil sludge around the top of the chimney! I may have to reduce it some what! With everything going well and the timing seeming to be spot on I’m very confident the loco will be very powerful and usable, meaning all my hard work should be worth it in the coming months once its painted and finally finished!! One last bit…we stripped the body work off the other night to make a start on the process of stripping and painting it again, so it should only be a couple of months away from completion! YAY!!! ;D Steve
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Post by pannierstan on Apr 1, 2006 8:08:55 GMT
Good luck Steve and well done on getting to where you are. My 14xx is still in pieces and I have been waiting for cylinders to fit my new cylinder blocks but once they are done the boiler will be back on and then we are away. Found a glaring problem on the axle pump the other day when I was testing it. The last builder had put the non return on the wrong way so it was pumping against a brick wall. Glad it never steamed Realised I have to check everything now!! Cheers P.S Will you be at the modelworks rally with her?
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Apr 1, 2006 11:11:09 GMT
hmm not sure about the owners rally, seeing how long it has taken to get the majority of stuff done and the time spent in between not doing anything to get this far I shouldn't think it will be completed in time, but we shall see!
Spent this morning taking the rest of the loco apart down to the frames, pistons, wheels and motion. Don't think I will need to take the rest apart as we touched up the frames once before when it was in this state. With a cleanup, bit more touch up and adjustment to the driving wheels it should all be fine.
The boiler has been parted from all its attachments with only the blow down valve and regulator still having a solid relationship, I'm not taking the regulator out again after all the work I've done! All the body works off so stripping and painting can begin, some cosmetic stuff needs to be done but that can be sorted during the painting work.
Steve
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Post by Phil Sutton on Apr 2, 2006 20:09:22 GMT
Well done Steve,sounds like you've got a good 'un there.May you have many happy hours steaming.
Phil
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mott
Hi-poster
Posts: 151
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Post by mott on Apr 3, 2006 19:27:30 GMT
Hi Phil (of the high karma) Will you be at the Openday. I am hoping to make the trip. My loco is now sound. Ive had it in steam 3 times but tomorrow i plan to get some running. I would have run before but first it was the steam chest joint and second time it appeared to have a leak within the boiler. I took it over to Daventry last week and they quickly decided the regulator was leaking. Now all is restored. I have made a cut in the pipe thru the smokebox from the superheater to valve chest and put in a 8mm coupling which allows for easier access in this problem area. Keeping my fingers crossed for tomorow! How is your 14XX is it running yet? Mott
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Sept 1, 2008 10:22:39 GMT
Hello!!! I'm still here really, just had nothing to report! But the resurrection of this thread must mean I have some news... It is finally Complete!!!Its only taken 2 years to paint (don't ask!), but we've finally done it and now also has a successful steam boiler test to match! One slight issue is during the rebuild, whilst not thinking it appears, I put a washer on the thread side of the reverser! Meaning I now cannot achieve full forward due to the 1 to 2mm lack of travel. It runs fine forward but its slightly out of beat and feels like its crabbing in an odd way! :S Reverse is fine though! Anyway, here are some photos taken the other day. You may notice some screws aren't painted and some are not present at all. I know I'm going to have to remove things like the top of the tanks, so Ive not screwed them down etc! The paints not as good as I could be, but it will do.... www.sindentheatre.biz/images/t1.jpgwww.sindentheatre.biz/images/t2.jpgwww.sindentheatre.biz/images/t3.jpgwww.sindentheatre.biz/images/t4.jpgwww.sindentheatre.biz/images/t5.jpgwww.sindentheatre.biz/images/t6.jpgLet me know what you think! Steve
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Post by ericcee on Sept 1, 2008 10:37:27 GMT
What do you mean - "the paints not as good as it could be"? It looks great from here - I wish I could achieve such a finish. Overall, this little loco certainly looks wonderful - congratulations!
Eric
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jvas
Active Member
Posts: 40
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Post by jvas on Sept 1, 2008 12:03:01 GMT
Steve,
Paint looks good. I like the little bits of fettling you have done.
Well done,
Happy Steaming.
Jeremy.
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Post by ausdan on Sept 1, 2008 12:34:42 GMT
looks superb good thread also guys
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Post by mowerman1 on Nov 23, 2008 19:07:37 GMT
As a new menber of this forum I have been fascinated to read about all the problems encountered with Steve's Winson. I too have built a Winson 14xx and encountered a lot - but not all - of the problems mentioned. A quick comment on one or two of the problems. The de-railing problem: Not only did I rebuild the leaf springs, but a colleague at my club felt the driving wheel flanges were not deep enough. He therefore "re-tyred" (with new deeper flanges) the front drivers only. No further problems. Lubrication: I found that the positioning of the lubricator allowed crud to get into it, so I've resited it behind the front buffer beam with a drive off the valve eccentric. I also changed it for a different ratchet type lubricator. This works very well. Crosshead little end bolts: Despite Loctite I had one fall out while running causing a total lock -up and resulting in a wrecked conrod. New bolts were made with longer threads to accept Nyloc type nuts. No problems so far. I have posted on another thread on this forum regarding using a riding tank for water and 2 injectors. I scrapped the injector supplied as it was rubbish and now use 2 Reeves injectors. I had constant problems with my crosshead driven pump - so it's now redundant. Steve - I'd like to know more about the petticoat you used as mine came without one and I've botched one using the top cut off of a Brasso tin! (don't laugh - it works!) I'd also be grateful if you would send me a copy of Modelworks timing instructions. Like you I did it the hard way, but I had fitted draincocks and this was a great help. Exhaust manifold alignment problems: I machined out the centre of the manifold and silver soldered an extension piece in so the blast pipe now lines up with the chimney. There have been numerous other mods including cast iron rings and new pistons (what a difference!) and it's now a decent little runner. I'm happy to post a full list of mods if it will be of use to anyone. It's about time for its Winter stripdown. I've developed a clonk this year which could come from 2 sources. A rear driving wheel has come slightly loose despite Loctite and could be affecting the quartering as I sometimes get a tendency to lockup when pushing it in the club steaming bays. A rock to and fro clears it (temporarily). Also there is some movement between the crosshead and the slide bars developing on one side only - most noticeable with the crosshead in the furthest away position from the cylinder. Both will need sorting. Steve; The pics of your loco look fantastic. I hope it goes as well as it looks! Peter
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Nov 25, 2008 15:45:28 GMT
Hello Peter, Thanks for the comments! I shall dig around in my computer and see if I can find the timing instructions, cant promise anything as yet! Petticoat pipe wise I brought the castings from Reeves 2000 vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/shop_item.asp?sub_cat_id=82&page=4and set about filling and griding (I've no lathes etc!) the impressively rough 'straight out of the mould' casting to a shape that it should resemble, made a tiny bracket to attach it to the winson inner chimney petticoat pipe thing (if you can call it that) and used some of that putty glue stuff that goes hard around the join to seal it up and improve the stability of the bracket. Its not brilliant in any respects, but it must help with the slight miss alignment that still exists! I shall let you know if I find the instructions - I think I gave up with them before I reached the end and just fiddled till it was the best I could get it! Regards, Steve
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Post by mowerman1 on Nov 25, 2008 19:47:34 GMT
Hello Steve, Thanks for the link to Reeves for the petticoat pipe. I'll order one.
Have you encountered any problems while running the loco? You did mention injector problems. As stated elsewhere, I gave up on the injector from Winson and bought Reeves ones. No problems to report there but injectors do like lots of cold water, so a good flow is essential - you probably know this anyway.
Regards, Peter
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sjtown
Active Member
Posts: 38
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Post by sjtown on Nov 27, 2008 14:19:08 GMT
Peter, Here is an extract from an email I received from a Mr Ian Adkins or Modelworks fame a few years ago just after buying our second hand 1400.
On timing issues he said this:
" To set the timing put the reverser in neutral (midposition) working on the righthand side first rotate the crank axle until the expansion link for that cylinder is aligned vertically. Time for a quick check for lost valve motion, where the valve extension rod passes through the motion plate towards the cylinder valve rods grasp this with finger and thumb and pull it forward and backward. Any movement here is lost valve timing and should be reduced as much as possible. It may exist between the die block and the expansion link, between the expansion link and the link arm and pins, or even between the eccentrics and straps, check all the areas and remedy as best you can before proceeding. Back to valve timing with the expansion link in vertical alignment and the reverser in neutral, measure the valve rod length protruding from the valve chest and set it to the position for valve centre you measured previously , the right hand cylinder is pretty much timed now so move to the left cylinder and repeat the process. Apply air to the valve chest and place in forward gear, she should run, listen to the exhaust beat to detect unevenness, match up the sounds with the strokes on the different cylinders (best done at a slow a speed as possible) the timing is best changed a little at a time (like half a turn of locking nut at any one time) until she sounds even, put her in reverse and listen once again to the exhaust note, if unbalanced continue to adjust the timing (away from perfect in forward) until you make best compromise between forward and reverse. "
See if you can follow that, not sure I did!
Running wise, the only issues since its first rebuild before painting was indeed getting the injector to play ball. I replaced the injector straight away and have had to again since as i lost a cone in the rebuild process (wondered why it wouldn't work the first time after rebuild) The main problem turned out to be that there was to much water feeding to it so a new valve on the riding truck cured that. - I have had the same issue on my 2" traction engine! Like all injectors it does pick its time to not pick up, this is also compounded by the less then brilliant riding truck tank design - it needs to be higher to increase gravitational flow! The hand pump had an impressive airlock after its final rebuild from painting. I couldn't figure this out for a long time until i just started being over exuberant with the handle and it finally cleared and kicked in. The axle pump takes its time to get going, it needs long runs to get it flowing, it didn't really like my test track of 10Meters!
Ive still not run it since my post before last, after the boiler test, as Ive had back issues and not had the opportunity when feeling well enough! My slight error with the reverser should be fixed as Ive removed the washer but that's yet to be tested. Apart from that it all seemed well.
Steve
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