!4XX Steam Chest

[mott]

Hi guys, My 14XX raised steam for the first time today. We got up to 90psi and the safety valve released steam but down as far as 50psi thus loosing almost half the steam and then it need s fairly vigerous tap to get it to stop. Any one know of a modification to avoid loosing all that steam?
The other problem arose when opening the regulator as steam issued out from under the smokebox. This was later established to be a leaking joint at the flange where the pipe from the superheater mates up with the top of the valve box. Odd this because when I finally got an alan key on the socket bolts they were at maximum tightness. I recall being very careful to make a good joint here.
The result was a half hearted chug in the steam bay and one very disappointed owner.

This disappointment doesn't stop there because to renew the gasket at the flange really requires removal of the smokebox saddle and that requires removing the footplate, side tanks and cab to lift the boiler at the smokebox end. However I have managed to get the socket bolts out and by undoing the bango joint fixing the superheater to the boiler made some movement which might just allow a new gasket to be slipped under the flange. We shall see.

I expect all you 14XX guys are shaking your heads with amazement at these minor problems and steaming merrily away. If not give me a response with any thoughts that might cheer me up. Mott

[Phil Sutton]

Hi,Mott.Can't help you much with the safety valve,maybe needs a stronger spring?I think someone else has had this problem,and changed the safety valve to a Gordon Smith design.
As for the steam supply joint,I think slightly thicker gasket and some sealer round the joint will cure this,steam could be leaking up round the threads on the fixing screws,and/or maybe the pipe joint is suspect?
Otherwise it sounds as if you have every thing sorted,things can only get better!

Happy steaming,

Phil

[mott]

Phil, I wish you were right. It seems quite s tricky joint to seal. Very inaccessible. Will keep trying. Mott

[sjtown]

Elo elo,

These little problems sound like the ghost of winson, irritating and totally unnecessary problems!

I changed my winson safety valve over to a Dave Noble one, you may wish to see if you can get one for yours or from someone else!

The leaky joint should be solved with thicker paper or may be some sort of sealing goo as Phil says, if you don't get any other issues (fingers crossed) then this shouldn't be a reason to be disappointed, trust me I know!

Keep at it!

Steve

[mott]

Hi Guys, Interesting development was that Debbie knew all about the steam chest seal and is sending me new gaskets and SHORTER bolts. The original bolts were bottoming. Other points now more or less dealt with, I will follow up on the safety valve replacement as suggested.Thanks to all, Mott. I am currently no longer disappointed!!

[Donald G]

Hi, sorry to hear that yesterday wasn't successful, and that a goodly lot of work is required in order to sort the problem.

I look forward to hearing all the latest Friday night at the club


Donald

[mott]

Just covering the the problem of the safety valve, Gordon Smith is helping me to modify the valve with a different spring, larger ball. I will have to modify the seat and make a proper brass guide for the inside. I talked to Dave Noble but he has no valves in stock. Also established that Polly Engineering make a "drop in " replacement which is guaranteed "Not to steam clean the station roof".Apparentally all Polly locos use the same valve and years ago Winson and Polly were in the same ownership hence the interchangeability.Now I'm just waiting for the return of the warm weather. Mott

[greasemonkey]

whats wrong with this weather? Its not raining (LOL)!!!!

Andy

[mott]

Whose this LOL person? Mott

[Phil Sutton]

LOL = Laughs Out Loud,Mott,used in place of emoticons,or smilies. ;D
Phil

[gwrfan]

Hey Phil,

That's great! ####[oooooo][oooooo]####

ROFLAPMP

[greasemonkey]

for what its worth (fwiw), to get the full translation
www.noslang.com/dictionary/r


Andy

[mott]

I ve got enough trouble with the 14XX without having to learn a new language as well. I don't even know what a "blog" is, but I do know what HP is cos I'm drinking some now
Mott

[heyfordian18]

In response to Mott's original comments on safety valve and steam chest, I have experienced the same problems on the first steaming of my loco 1452. Sorry if this is a bit late, but I have not had much spare time to keep up with the chat recently.
The safety valve initially sent was, I am told by my club boiler inspector, apparently too small for the boiler volume. With insufficient clearance around the ball for the steam to escape, the steam holds the ball off the seat until the pressure has dropped quite low. Don't be tempted to change the spring, that will resolve nothing, you need a valve with a larger space for the steam to escape. If you can't get Ian at Modelworks to change it, give Blackgates a call. They have 2 types of valve with the same thread (5/8" x 26 I think) but make sure you get the tall version of the valve.
As for the steam chest, I found that the bolts in the top for the superheater flange were a tad too long for the holes, or maybe the holes in the chest were too short for the bolts! Result, when opening the regulator, the gasket blew out with clouds of steam and no pressure in the chest. Easy answer is to put a couple of stainless washers under the head of the bolts, with a new gasket. Getting them all in place with the smokebox in situ is a **$!% of a job, but can be done. Make sure that you get these 2 bolts tight, by using an extension over the short arm of the allen key, otherwise the gasket just blows out again. Don't ask me how I know, I just do!
Next time I take it apart, I will cut the steam pipe below the superheater and put either a threaded or bolted flange in where it is accessible.
Good luck

[mott]

Heyfordian18.We have both had replicated experiences.I took my loco to the club today to try again having bought a Polly valve and I had hoped sorted out the flanged joint.It didnt work out however. the valve is fine and i have it set at 90 psi however the fire was very difficult to pull up. I had a lot of leakage from the drain cocks which I couldn't understand as the regulator was closed and finally came to the conclusion that there was a leak in the steam pipe inside the boiler. I have pulled it out and it seems undamaged but I have suspicions that the threading into the regulator is not tight, alternatively the regulator is leaking. Like you I will cut the pipe from the superheater if this problem continues and put a coupling in there. Today the blower was just not strong enough to pull the fire up and the steam from it was wet.
We keep trying to get these things sorted and eventually we may succeed?? Mott
PS What about these automatic drain cocks, are they really worth having? they seem to download plenty of water and for a while fooled us into thinking they were the problem when the overflow was actually coming from the top of the steam chest.
My main worry is how can steam come out of the chimney when the regulator is closed, is there a leak from the regulator or what?

[Phil Sutton]

Mott,that could be a leak from the regulator,or maybe from the blower valve.You may find that drilling a few extra holes in the blower ring will increase the draught on the fire,-make sure your safety valve is up to scratch though!

Phil

[steamjohn248]

Mott

We have fitted Gordon Smiths safety valves to all our locos, they are spot on, dont scare the kiddies open and close within about 4 psi and get rid of the steam, He will make them to order in any size, pressure, thread in a week or so and very cheap. Have you been looking at the thread re SS ball valves for regulators on the main chat site? Only in Maldon if you want to come and look.

Steamjohn

[pannierstan]

John where can I find Gordon Smith valves and how do they rate against such as Reeves??

Thanks Stan

[mott]

Hi Stan, You can contact Gordon Smith 01283 546176 ([e-mail])
I cannot compare them to Reeves however Gordons modifcation certainly work and it isn't too difficult to modify your existing valves. He will supply springs and s/s ball bearings as appropriate for a modest cost Mott.

[pannierstan]

Thanks Mott, will be giving him a call ;D
By the way I have seen you many threads Re your 14xx around here.
I have just recently acquired a rather sorry 14xx and am in the process of strip and rebuild.
Have found some hilarious goofs by the original builder and also found the slide valves were the old brass not the new shorter steel ones.
Modelworks to the rescue as usual
Will keep in touch if you are interested.
Regards Stan