KIT 13

[paultomlinson]

Kit 13 arrived last week. Coupling and connecting rods are supplied in this kit. Having read jj's website in which he describes the rods for the Britannia being CNC machined, I was disappointed to see that the Duchess rods have been laser cut!!
MW have lost a great opportunity here, not only have the rods been laser cut they follow exactly the profile of Michael Breeze's drawings. With a little research MW would see that the profile of these rods is very poor compared to the real thing, so guess where my rods have gone!

[paultomlinson]

I have had an exchange of emails with Dean regarding the rods. To his credit he has not dismissed my suggestions and the state of the Duchess rods and remaining motion will be discussed at a production meeting next Tuesday. I'll hopefully post something here next week after I have heard the results of that meeting.
I am also told that there has been a delivery of piston rings so we should hopefully see those next week.

[duchessmike]

Paul,
I agree with you, the rods are indeed somewhat lacking in finesse.
Not withstanding the profile, mine look like they have been chewed out of solid with a very blunt chisel; I too thought that we would get rods like what was supplied to the Britannia builders, I've seen someone's kit and they looked very good.
I've not discussed this with MW yet, that's for next week after I have identified the Directors.
Its them that need the talking to, not the production people.
Best wishes,
Mike

[davidk]

Hi Paul,
I also am in total agreement. This after all is an expensive kit. CNC'd rods for example, should really not be too much to expect. I find it disappointing to see something of a reduction in quality, compared to a few years ago. Laser cut parts instead of CNC'd parts are one example, use of Zintec instead of brass is another. I will be most interested to hear Dean's response.
Best wishes, David

[paultomlinson]

Lets hope next weeks production meeting at MW is positive and that they move up a gear in production of this very expensive kit. I agree with you David that Zintec is a poor substitute for brass platework. I remember reading somewhere that MW claims it has numerous advantages such as "easier to work, paint adheres better..." oddly enough there was no mention of it being cheaper. Even though my tender is complete, painted and lined, I shall not be using it. My own tender chassis is well on the way, just waiting for a few more castings from Blackgates (but thats another story) and I shall shortly be starting on a BRASS tender tank.
I have been working on the inside connecting rods this week which after considerable maching are now on the loco. I have reduced the size of the big end boss and now the screws grip by more than the original three threads!!
The bushes for the little end are too large and the flanges reduced by .020" each before they would fit in the crosshead. Additionally I have fluted both sides of the rod, milled .040" away from part of the little end so that I could put a 1mm plate over the oil well. Lots of filing, milling use of emery, wet and dry they are semi-presentable. Unfortunately all the outside rods are beyond this treatment.
With the centre cylinder in place I have also noted that the exhaust manifold does not bolt up against the cylinder cleanly. There is a .060" (min) gap around the manifold and centre cylinder if the exhaust is screwed to the frames first. Looks as though I shall have to cut the pipe from the centre cylinder and fit an external sleeve.
I was hoping that this would be a quick build Duchess straight from the box (only needing hand tools to complete!!) but it would have been as quick to build from scratch. I am very close to calling it a day with MW so I do hope next weeks meeting will resolve these issues.

Paul.

[vapor]

Hi Guys, well I feel a little let down as without the machines and or the necessary expertise you all have I am very much out on a limb, it would appear that my hand tools, file, emery, flap wheel and my trusty Dremmel will not be of much help.
I too was hopping for a bolt together kit but it's a bit more than that, I don't think I will be able to finish the Duchess to your standards but now I am wondering with all the current and past problems if I will be able to finish it at all, I am getting very worried now

[paultomlinson]

Anyone had adelivery of piston rings yet? Have the Britannia builders received the rest of their kit 18 as promised by mid April (yesterday). I have emailed Dean again but still no response, not looking too good is it?

[Deleted]

Hi Paul,

Nothing as yet on the Britannia - I did call Modelworks yesterday and they said it would be the end of this week or early next.

Ian, if it's any encouragement I've built my Britannia entirely with hand tools (a growing collection of them) and started with no real experience (although that too has grown along the way).

Regards,

John

[paultomlinson]

I am now informed that the piston rings will not be posted until next week due to a supply problem even though I was told last week that they had arrived and would be posted early this week...draw your own conclusions.

You will need a little more than handtools to finish this Duchess as supplied. As an example the inside connecting rod big end bushes have not been bored big enough. As supplied the big end clamps the crank angle really hard!!. I had to bore the bushes .015" bigger before they would rotate freely. No hand tool would do this job accurately enough.

Paul.

[steamfittings]

John,

The Brit kit was boxed and sealed today, as agreed, ready for despatch and City Link failed to turn up to collect it ( i suppose though some individuals may chose not to believe that!)

Paul,

Following on from my other comments, an update was supplied to you regading the rings and some have been sent out (10 sets i believe). We have been promised, a further batch of rings were despatched today from our supplier for a delivery to us on Monday. Asked what the problem was we were told by our supplier that he was on stop with his material supplier........draw your own conclusion........Maybe next time we will take a step backwards and use O rings as these are easily obtained!

As i stated previously, i will discuss the motion rods with our design manager on Monday and upate from there.


Regards

Dean

[Deleted]

Hi Dean,

That's good news - I'll look forward to receiving the final Britannia bits on Tuesday

Regards,

John

[vapor]

Hi John,
Well thats encouraging to hear, as you say the list of hand tools keeps growing every kit, I cant wait to finish it but I think thats a long way off yet, one thing hobby teaches you is to be very patient, Ian

[Deleted]

Hi Dean,

Could I ask what's happened to the final Britannia kit that you said a week ago was boxed and sealed and ready for despatch?

Regards,

John

[bungle]

IF IT'S NOT THE TRUTH, THEN IT IS A ...............!!!!!!!!!

[paultomlinson]

Surely Bungle you don't mean that could be a ........LIE? Never mind because I am sure the Duchess builders will have received their piston rings this week, again as promised by you know who.
Like the comment about MW reverting back to using O rings, why not go the whole hog and rename the Company Winsons?

Hate to say anything whilst I am in dispute with MW but as I have been accused of being vocal and biased, what the hell.
Mike, you wanted to know who the Directors were, oddly there is only one Director named Red Jumper Ltd. Not sure if it is standard Company practice to hide behind another Ltd company but the address of Red Jumper is the same as the MW chairman!

You Britannia customers have far more patience than myself. Having paid for kit 18 about fourteen months ago and still waiting for final delivery I think I would have done something about it by now.

[6233]

Hello to everyone.
Its been quite a time since I last checked what the state of play was with the Duchess kits, Mike I have not forgoten you or the water valves as promised as you know its hetic up here.
Anyway, it makes me sad to read all about your problems, I only wish I had the time to help all of you that do not have either the skill or machine tools to rectifie the problems. I had my Duchess in steam the other week, spen 4 very happy hours around the track and may well steam her again this weekend.
Paul with regards to the tender tank, have a work with Malcolm High LAser cutting service, he has some fantastic brass kits for the tenders, my friend is just finishing his for his Princess.
If the rods are anything like the crank I fettled for Mike then yes the only place for them is the bin.
I have been giving some serious thought as to setting up in opposition to MW as I know I can produce a much better product.
Anyway must dash, if I can help please do ask I will always try my best.
We plan to have 4 Duchess's in steam later this summer at the track here in North Wales, will keep you posted of the date.

Regards

Mark

[6233]

God I wish I could type as good as I can build loco's.

[duchessmike]

Hi Mark,Typings good, bet that you didn't attend a Pitman class!
No worries with the valves, the MW debacle has taken center stage, and there's a small group of Duchess builders who are moving forward with getting what we've got finished; like getting the piston and valve rings.
Fortunately, one of our group identified the supplier used by MW, who we've now ordered rings from.
Best wishes,
Mike

[vapor]

Hi Mike & All,

I like many have sent of the necessary cheque for the piston and valve rings but I forgot to ask Alan when he was likely to be making them, anyone know when this will be??.
Not that I need them at present but just thought someone might know.

Ian

[6233]

I use PTFE for my valve rings, I fitted them to the Brit over 10 years ago and I have never touched them.
Mike where are you with the motion for the Duchess, one route would be to follow a friend of mine in his build of the Princess, which is first class, is to get everything water cut and all that would be required them would be a very small amount of machining to finish.
Anyway chaps if you need any help with getting bit made to finish just let me know and I will se what I can sort, we need to ensure that some way these beautiful locos get finished.

Just a thought on the boiler, John Ellis built mine, he's not cheep but the boilers he builds are the very best also he has the original drawings from Geoff Gregson, he did a mod on the backhead to enable the great to be removed through the enlarged door in 3 sections, also he spaced the water gauges out by a touch to give more room around the regulator. If anybody needs Johns number let me know and I will dig it out for you.
I fitted my backhead with fitting from Dave Nobel, again if anybody wants a pic let me know and I will email one, he also can supply the sniffting valves, blower valve and safety valves.


Regards

Mark