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Post by oddball on Feb 8, 2009 21:19:27 GMT
Has anybody had any difficulty having a TIG welded boiler tested?When a TIG welded copper boiler was mentioned at the local club there was a 'sharp intake of breath'.....
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Post by mutley on Feb 8, 2009 21:58:56 GMT
not many clubs will have anyone with the relevant experince. Who made the boiler, do you have the material certs and copies of the welders ticket? What about a 2x W.P. hydraulic cert?
Andy
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Post by alanstepney on Feb 9, 2009 0:23:32 GMT
The latest boiler regulations allow for TIG welded copper boilers, but I suspect that some inspectors will be wary of them, until they have some experience of that type of construction.
If your own club cant or wont test it, they can arrange for someone who will, from another club, to do the tests.
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Post by oddball on Feb 9, 2009 14:33:11 GMT
Hi ,thanks for the Post. The boiler was bought from Maxitrak and made by Welding Innovations ltd of Kent. Regarding paperwork, I have the Welding Procedure Approval papers and the Hydrotest Certificate - should this be enough? Cheers.
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tbsteam
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 231
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Post by tbsteam on Feb 9, 2009 20:42:30 GMT
A friend of mine has a 5" Brit, bought from Station Road Steam a few months ago, stripped it down for painting, found out it was a TIG welded boiler, but our boiler man didn't do anything different to a siver soldered boiler, and the boiler didn't come with any welding paperwork either.
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simonwass
Part of the e-furniture
Cecil Pagets 2-6-2 of 1908. Engine number 2299. Would make a fascinating model....
Posts: 472
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Post by simonwass on Feb 9, 2009 21:49:22 GMT
A friend of mine has also bought a 5" Brit from SRS with a welded boiler! His boiler is from Swindon boilers, there man apparently has a 'patent' out on his method, doesnt instill confidence in me personally. Not sure if he's had it properly tested yet though but it does have the hydraulic cert.
Its a big gamble for any club tester to pass a boiler made by unproven methods, we know silversoldered boilers are fine year after year but most other methods are 'its fine up to now'.
When we were in the Northern fed they wouldnt do steel, we moved to Southern to get steel in the club (I believe so anyway).
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tbsteam
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 231
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Post by tbsteam on Feb 9, 2009 22:01:25 GMT
don't suppose his name is Steve is it?!?
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simonwass
Part of the e-furniture
Cecil Pagets 2-6-2 of 1908. Engine number 2299. Would make a fascinating model....
Posts: 472
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Post by simonwass on Feb 9, 2009 23:28:38 GMT
don't suppose his name is Steve is it?!? No, coincidence though! |
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Tony K on Feb 28, 2009 11:23:36 GMT
Should this be under General rather than Modelworks?  Would get much wider audience there.  |
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Post by alanstepney on Feb 28, 2009 14:15:00 GMT
Thread moved.
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Post by havoc on Feb 28, 2009 15:01:40 GMT
Each boiler is only "fine up to now", that's why it needs regular re-testing.
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Post by albert on Feb 28, 2009 16:16:00 GMT
Hello Simonwass,
My Fowler steel boiler was the first one tested in our club,that was in 1992 long before our secretery pushed us into the S/Fed.
Albert.
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simonwass
Part of the e-furniture
Cecil Pagets 2-6-2 of 1908. Engine number 2299. Would make a fascinating model....
Posts: 472
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Post by simonwass on Feb 28, 2009 23:56:22 GMT
I've always believed it to be 'something' to do with steel boilers, may be not, insurance? No idea, clutching at straws! Immaterial to me as all mine are copper, but I may go with steel for the Paget due to its size, 10"dia. Having northern clubs in the southern (orkney) & vice versa (sussex) always seems strange but then why 2 feds anyway  |
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Tony K on Mar 1, 2009 8:31:08 GMT
Having northern clubs in the southern (Orkney) & vice versa (Sussex) always seems strange but then why 2 feds anyway Don't forget the Midland - Our Kidd!! They tell me it is like everything else - the south just prattles, postures and waffles, but the north just gets on with it!!   ;D Just to make sure we keep across all this, I belong to a club which subscribes to both - or is it all three?  |
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Post by mutley on Mar 1, 2009 9:34:41 GMT
So does the Miclland sit on the fence then or play piggy in the midle? ;D
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Tony K on Mar 1, 2009 10:03:08 GMT
So does the Miclland sit on the fence then or play piggy in the midle? ;D Dunno, but this is a list of all the quangos (edit - Associations) I can find who are involved in model engineering, no doubt there are others FMEMS (I wonder who this is) GL5 The Ground Level 5 Inch Gauge Main Line Association Here Midlands Federation of Model Engineering Societies Northern Association of Model Engineers Here Southern Federation of Model Engineering Societies Here The 7¼" Society Here The National 2½" Gauge Association Here The Society of Model and Experimental Engineers Here These are the bodies HSE says they consult with in relation to boiler testing. |
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longor
Involved Member
Posts: 51
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Post by longor on Mar 1, 2009 10:23:53 GMT
I've just been reading this thread about boiler testing, can somebody put me right, as a complete newbie to models, and no club within 200 mls.( N Abdshire).- I'm assuming testing & certificates are only needed for public running. If I build my own boiler & test it (I do know how to) there would be no problem? Not that anybody would know what I'm doing. As an aside ,have there been any accidents with model steam that have put the public in danger
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Post by alanstepney on Mar 1, 2009 15:10:20 GMT
Tony, the aforesaid club associations (and I believe there may have been one or two more), formed a committee to see what could be done to exempt UK model engineers from the Pressure Equipment Directives and other related legislation.
There were number of highly qualified engineers on that committee, and due to their efforts, were able to convince HSE et al that "we" were a responsible bunch of people who could be trusted to regulate ourselves.
Had they not done so, it is highly unlikely that any of us would be allowed to make our own boilers, or fittings, or to test our boilers as we do now.
Of course there are certain restrictions, but nowhere near as many as there would have been had we to rely on some government body to test everything we did.
And neither do we have the expense that that would have involved.
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Post by alanstepney on Mar 1, 2009 15:15:10 GMT
Longor,
You can test your own boiler and run it on your own property, as you wish.
The problems come when you want to run it in public (you wont be allowed to), and nor would you be allowed to operate at any club.
The reason is that a club member is automatically insured by his club, which also covers use at other clubs (in the same Federation).
Of course, should you have a serious accident, perhaps injuring a child, you would be uninsured, and even though it might be on your own property, you could be held liable for any such injury.
It is possible to get inspection and tests by commercial organisations, but the cost is very high.
Yes, there have been accidents, but fortunately, very few.
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russell
Statesman
Chain driven
Posts: 762
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Post by russell on Mar 1, 2009 15:16:41 GMT
I don't believe there are any legal requirements for boilers made for your own use, neither in private or public running. However, if you require third party liability insurance (advisable for public running) the insurance company may insist on certain requirements.
Isn't it about time the UK associations (they are private organisations not Quangos) joined forces and published a set of unified recommendations? Over here the CAV publishes a very simple set of recommendations with a pressure test to be conducted by the constructor and one other member before they can issue insurance. No need for boiler inspectors.
Russell.
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;D
