Boiler Testing. 5" Simplex.

[stantheman]

Russell....I believe if you took the trouble to contact any of the groups that have subscribed to dealing with this issue, as Alan mentioned before, you will find there is a common set of requirements dealing with the issues surrounding boiler testing etc. Now known as the 'Blue Book', recently re-published from the original 'Red Book'. As far as I am aware the Associations etc that have been listed elsewhere all have the common interests of all UK model engineers in mind. Be careful when, in the UK, giving 'advice' on anything related to Insurance matters, leave that to those that are in the business, ie bona fide Brokers..Insurance Companies etc. Repercussions can be very expensive when facing a court hearing where the plaintiff states..(well HE told me so!)

[stantheman]

Tony...FMEMS was a group that people from EIM (Chris Deith I think) tried to get off the ground to form yet another 'united' group, it stalled on take off so was consigned, for the time being, to the history books. Several years ago to my recollection, about the time the dreaded TN3 and subsequently, 'Fairground Rides etc', reared their ugly heads.

[alanstepney]

Yes, there ARE legal requirements.
They are set out in Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 and the Pressure Equipment Directives.

The code agreed by HSE for model boilers, and contained in the Red Book, allows us some exemoption from the aforesaid rules, subjet to certain conditions regarding construction and testing.

We, any of us as individuals, can work outside of the Red Book, and opt for a normal commercial test, as is applied to other types of pressure vessel.

But, if we want to keep to the cheapest and simplest option, have low cost insurance, and aling ourselves with the majority of the model engineering community, that book contains the rules to which we must adhere.

It may be of interest to note that one of the major contributors to the committee, was one of the largest insurers of boilers, and their input was, no doubt, invaluable.

Now, as I said, if anyone disagrees, or wishes to build something that is outside of the code, then they can do so. But, before going that route, I would strongly advise contacting whoever is going to insure it, and make sure they agree with what is proposed.

[Shawki Shlemon]

In Australia if one does not have a current boiler certificate can not steam his/her model on any club grounds .Without a boiler certificate the model is worthless unless one keep it in his own backyard .
I don't understand why anybody would want to build a boiler not conforming to safe rules and having it inspected and tested for free and certified.

[russell]

I stand corrected regarding the Red (Blue) Book. Shouldn't it be more widely published, where can one get it? Is it available to consult on line?

Regarding the legal requirements; I'm sorry Alan but I believe you are wrong.

To quote from the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000, part 1, section 3; Aplication and Duties - " (2) Subject to Schedule 1 (which sets out exceptions to the Regulations), these Regulations shall apply to or in relation to pressure systems which are used or intended to be used at work.". So,unless you are intending to use your model at work, these regulations do not apply to our hobby.

The Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/CE, like most directives covering requirements for equipment, only applies to equipment "intended to be placed on the market", in other words it only applies to boilers made to be sold new, not to boilers made for your own use or purchased second hand.

Please understand I am not advocating the use of unsafe boilers just pointing out that anyone with sufficient expertise to construct and test his own boiler is allowed to do so. Rules that clubs and insurance providers enforce (and which may be very reasonable) are not law.

Regards,
Russell.

[havoc]

these Regulations shall apply to or in relation to pressure systems which are used or intended to be used at work.

Problem here lies in what is defined as "work". It is sufficiently wide to include any revenue gathering activity. Thus also running on a club track with paying passengers.

[stantheman]

Publications (Blue Book) from the Southern Federation (at least) can be obtained by going to their web site Southern Fed of M.E.S. Click 'publications' to see items and 'contact' for the Chairman's link (he handles sales etc).

[albert]

Hello all,
You can get a boiler test regs. book by contacting Tony Woods at Walker Midgley,and it really is cheap!!
Albert

[russell]

Thanks, stantheman,
I,ll order a copy; Although it is not necessary here it must be good value at 40p!

Russell

[stantheman]

Your more than welcome Russell. I was not sure if the price was the same, the web site is slightly out of date. If I am elected to the task of their Newsletter Editor in a couple of weeks time I will do my best to get it updated on a regular basis. Information such as that should be widely available, unfortunately my efforts to get it published as a PDF file fell on deaf ears due to the copyright issues. Time will tell.

[Tony K]

I know I am turning into a GOM, but with a publication that is vital to us, why is it the Best Kept Secret and why is it so difficult to get a copy?

Why not post it on the web

Seems like "Knowledge is Power" to me!

Vote for Stan

[alanstepney]

As far as the Blue/Red book that clubs have to adhere to is concerned, the owners hold the copyright, and it is up to them how they wish to publish it.
As it is available from several sources (Southern or Northern Federations, as two examples) and all clubs must have copies, plus as it only costs pence, and that goes to defray expenses, why not tret yourself to a copy?

The ME article that has been mentioned could, I feel, be reprinted now as it is useful information. However, that is up to the editor of ME.

[albert]

Hello,
If you go into a Federation web site the book contents can be viewed
Contact Walker Midgley Insurance Brokers I feel sure they will send you a book.
Albert.

[geoffj]

Pardon my `higorance', but shouldn't this post be moved to the new heading of `Boiler Design and Construction'?
I see it's dodged about a bit already!
It's a very `in' subject.

GeoffJ

[Tony K]

Mar 26, 2009 10:50:48 GMT alanstepney said:

Why not treat yourself to a copy?

Alan - that was exactly my point - I want to!

[alanstepney]

Try:
www.southernfed.co.uk/publications.htm
www.normodeng.org.uk/

[ewal]

Over the last 4 working days I have had 4 steel boilers welded. 3 Tinkerbelles & 1 Sweet William. The boiler tube is 10mm & the plate is 12mm. I had all the plate profile cut, but drilled the tube plates on the pillar drill. I am in attendance while the welder is working as I have to place the parts in position. He asked what pressure did they run at & remarked I am used to welding tubes AT 3000 psi,I saw a piece of this tube, it looked about 6mm. The boilers were delivered this morning. I managed to cut the copper tubes for one but didn't manage to expand them as I had to collect a load of firewood. The welder is retiring in June so I had enough boilers built to last until I retire.
E.W.

[ripslider]

Just out of interest::

what DOES it cost to get a boiler commercially certified?

And regarding insurance - what sort of type required? I'm guessing public liability insurance for £xmillion?

Steve

[stantheman]

Tonytrans says 'vote for Stan', not sure if he is aiming that at me, if he is then 'thanks'.
Regarding some of the best kept secrets, well copyright is an issue which keeps coming up in conversations, not sure if we will ever get around that on-line. The publications that are issued by various groups around the country are available normally through your own particular representatives (Sec or Tres). Speaking only about the S/Fed, their own publications are available at whichever shows their stand attends or they are available through their web site. This web site has been the subject of debate very recently, and guess what, they have passed the onus on me to see that it is brought up to date and maintained, wont happen in the next couple of weeks but hopefully it will not be long. So use it where possible and as the saying goes, 'watch that space'.

[mutley]

try this link. My quick glace this morning makes ,e believe they may be the current version despite the wrong cover!!

www.ntet.co.uk/pdf/miniatures_exam_and_test_code_nov_08.pdf

i get the feelign there may be a copyright infrimgment here as well!!!

Andy