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Post by ayesha2 on Jul 5, 2009 17:07:44 GMT
what will a trading standards officer do when all you get are quotes from this that and the other bits out of a book, and in one case off the INTERNET which was for a professional boiler tester [must have been trawlling it when i phoned]. I gave him the url for photobucket to show offending object, took them off some time later to give more time for mentioned boiler tester to arrange something not answered yet, also gave him this url has well so he might get to know a bit more, you have to remember they are only used to fridges washing m/c,s etc.{the standards officer that is] i got the impression he had not attempted to even find out the second time let alone the third i called
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Post by havoc on Jul 5, 2009 17:48:51 GMT
- external appearances may not (or may) indicate questionable build, likewise appearances do not indicate conformity (or not) - any self approved CE marked item (like I guess ME boilers are) should posses a technical file that could be requested.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2009 17:56:10 GMT
I've been watching this debate for some time, and I'm surprised that it has been sustained for so long, given the current arrangements here in the UK. Here is the intro from the latest Boiler Testing publication from The British model Engineering Liaison Group, and I feel that it summarises 'The Establishment's' attitude to our hobby quite well. It certainly bears out Alan's comments and any others that have supported him. Perhaps certain other EU countries could and should take note? My apologies if this has been shown here before. JB
The HSE welcomes and supports the manner in which the various Clubs, Societies, Associations and Federations representing Miniature and Model Engineering have worked in their own time to produce this Test Code for the Examination and Testing of Miniature Steam Boilers. This Code should ensure that boilers are constructed, maintained and operated safely, and that when applicable, compliance is achieved with the relevant legislation. This is another good example of the HSE principles of working in partnership, and acknowledges that the people best placed to make an activity safe are the people who are most closely involved in it. This is an important step for the industry in ensuring the high safety standards they set are maintained and improved. The HSE commends this Code and is confident that it will assist the organizations involved to continue to improve standards of safety.
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Post by ayesha2 on Jul 5, 2009 19:24:53 GMT
to havoc and Russell
to any one interested Alan Stepney really did not have much choice when he locked the thread posted by me on the 13th June i believe, has there are no criteria for such a thing has what has happened with my boiler.
why did i start this post? especially in this thread. i have read most if not all of the postings, ALL HAVE BITS THAT ARE RELEVANT too the heading, BUT being a newbie i see something that maybe havoc see,s has well i don,t know, and that is complacency, looking in wards when you should be also looking out-wards, because if anything thing is going to happening to the model engineers [don,t like abbreviations] right to build HIS own boiler to the clubs requirements, with the clubs boiler inspectors help and members has well, compliant to north and south federations rules regs and all that. I CALL IT B>>>***T BUT I KNOW IT IS DAMN NECESSARY TO GUARD OUR RIGHT TO DO SO.
THE CE MARK IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO CONDONE BAD WORKMANSHIP FOR COMMERCIAL GAIN AND PASS THE DUBIOUS TESTING ON TOO THE CLUB TESTER WHO IS PROBABLY NOT HAPPY, ALSO HIS INSTINCTS MAY NOT BE TOO HAPPY ABOUT IT EITHER. Has i see it, all is related wether we like it or not, wether here in great Britain or abroad ALL SHOULD BE UNITED, all of one accord
insurance has i see it and have experience of it, THEY WILL TAKE YOUR MONEY, ANOTHER THING WHEN YOU WANT TO CLAIM, because at the end of the day it all boils down to MONEY AND WHAT THEY CAN SCREW OUT OF YOU. THAT IS WHY MODEL ENGINEERS MUST NOT BECOME COMPLACENT BECAUSE EVERY THING IS TICKETY BOO AT THE MOMENT. yee gods i do go on all i want is me money back and rid of this rubbish.
if enough wants to view the mentioned rubbish i might arrange to put them some where for you to download while i still _OWN_ it, i will require you to send me email addresses with postal code, why because i,m a cynical old B*****d, if you are really interested i will burn to cd all relevant photos and emails for the rubbish and post to your address.
yours Ayesha2 [tony]
P.S. if this isn,t quite right Alan please send personal message and i,ll alter what you think appropriate [ooops inappropriate]
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Post by havoc on Jul 5, 2009 20:52:49 GMT
Maybe not, but the CE mark isn't a mark of quality in the sense of refined workmanship or craft. It only says that the piece receiving the mark is compliant with the required TECHNICAL standards. It will not leak, it will stand the pressure and steam test and the material and methods used in fabrication are as needed for those TECHNICAL standards.
If it doesn't or you can prove that some of it isn't compliant then you can take it to the body mentioned above or at least try with the maker first to come to an arrangement. But again, the looks of the item don't have anything to do with the technical aspects.
This is why you can give anything a CEmark following the "technical file" way. But remember it is the person signing the declaration that goes to jail when it is discovered that the item doesn't comply.
I'm involved in quite a bit electronics that needs to be marked CE. Mostly this is low voltage and emc directive (sometimes medical or UL). But it doesn't take care of how well this stuff is made or how usable it is. Glossy box on the outside but the insides won't live a couple of years. That's budget of the maker that decides. But it does pass the needed tests (after we add the stuff the customer didn't want because to expensive).
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Post by ayesha2 on Jul 5, 2009 22:17:06 GMT
Hi havoc
its the insistence of the maker in taking it to the club boiler tester i do not like, it should have nothing to do with the club for 4 years i believe with current legislation WHY insist?? With no rivets for the inside strap it makes a difficult decision for him to make with a CE mark wouldn,t you think
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Post by Chris Kelland on Jul 15, 2009 7:40:09 GMT
Hi Ayesha2 [tony]
edited for reasons in following post.
Why object to involving the club boiler testers? I am not sure why you think you will not need to present the boiler for inspection for 4 years, what you should have with a new boiler is a certificate of the first x2 hydraulic test. Before you fire the boiler you will need a steam test certificate, some clubs also ask for a hydraulic re-test at X1.5, all perfectly normal.
Regards,
Chris.
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Post by Chris Kelland on Jul 15, 2009 7:44:25 GMT
Hi All,
Are we in danger of slowly getting off topic? I think that the points that Tony has raised are important and deserve their own thread. Alan?
Chris.
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Post by alanstepney on Jul 15, 2009 8:29:28 GMT
Chris, et al, I dont want this thread to get on to any one specific boiler, particularly not that of Ayesha, or it too will be closed.
For that reason, I delete the parts of your post that related to A boiler, but left the points that you made regarding steam tests, which are valid to ALL boilers.
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Post by Chris Kelland on Jul 17, 2009 17:08:26 GMT
Re: boiler rules, insurance and legality « Reply #48 on Jul 15, 2009, 8:29 »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris, et al, I dont want this thread to get on to any one specific boiler, particularly not that of Ayesha, or it too will be closed.
For that reason, I delete the parts of your post that related to A boiler, but left the points that you made regarding steam tests, which are valid to ALL boilers.
Sorry, I really don't understand what you are saying when you refer to one specific boiler, what is 'A' boiler. No one has said anything about any specific boiler, especially me! As I understand things, a member of this forum believes he has reason for complaint about an item he has bought, I have only pointed out that civil law is perhaps a better route to follow. for that reason I believe, Alan that your censorship was misplaced.
Chris K.
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Post by ayesha2 on Jul 20, 2009 21:57:43 GMT
Hi chris
the civil courts only fine whatever, the culprit carries on doing what ever again, it would be nice no one else gets ripped off by culprit hence this way of going about it. if they are honest manufacturers they will do the necessary thing if not who knows.
yours tony
p.s. what was it Alan deleted, am looking for answers, lost a thread to or about trading standards
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Post by ayesha2 on Jul 21, 2009 17:00:01 GMT
HI all
i have had a virus, and i have lost a thread that said a complaint about a product can be still brought up in up to 6 years after manufacture with trading standards. anyone come across this in your travels on the net.
yours tony
p.s. or should i put this in a new thread Alan
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