Commercial boiler makers.

[ettingtonliam]

Tony
Presumably the CE mark should be put on when its finished and been tested? Do I understand Marco to be saying that its falsification of the individual ID number thats the offence which gets you 3 months, not the use of the CE mark when you are not entitled to it?

Richard

[Deleted]

Anyone have any luck getting into the 'Steamtechnology' website? All I get is a 'Quicktime Update' window on top of their entry page, and a stalled Internet Explorer which has to be restarted via the Task Manager!
JB

[ayesha2]

Hi simplyloco
wants quicktime to load.
the boilers are welded to bs en 288/287 or asme 1x standard what ever that is
has video of a dewinton type looks like 5 inch then other stuff how they are built
i use firefox to web browse safer than explorer


yours tony

[ayesha2]

Hi richard
i was given to understand with my boiler the number applied to all in the APCBM using the same number

when people start qouting numbers etc my brain goes numb same with abbreviations [sorree about the one above]

when someone starts this way with techno info they probably work with it all day know instantlywhats what, us mere mortals are left behind.

I think its for inventing your own number?

[baggo]

One question that has been intriguing me is: Is it allowable to CE mark a product which does not require it?

With regard to boilers, CE marking is only required (if I understand the rules correctly) for category 1 and above boilers i.e. boilers above 2 litres volume. Boilers up to and including 2 litres volume only require to be manufactured to 'Sound Engineering Practice (SEP)' and such boilers should not be CE marked. This will include most 2½" gauge boilers and small 3½" gauge ones such as Tich etc.

It is prohibited to over classify equipment i.e. you cannot call a boiler category IV when it is only category II so I wonder if the same applies to the above?

John

[drainblocker]

How do you affix a CE mark to a finished boiler made from soft copper without damaging the boiler?
As long as it has a CE mark when it is despatched where is the problem?
If the boiler is that small surely even a reasonably competent person could make it themselves, couldn't they?
There seems to be alot of 'experts' but looking into things 'experts' don't comsol firebox stays they silver solder them.

Drainblocker

[ayesha2]

Hi drainblocker
i would have thought on the bottom of the foundation ring would be the best place, with 1/8th lettering has i would think most rings are around 1/4 to 3/16 inch

yours tony

[mutley]

I believe the latest regs require the CE mark and serial/identifying number to be visable, hence why most people put it on the back head! The foundation ring is not the easiest place to check on a boiler mounted in the frames of any engine. You will have a similar problem if you then clad the backhead but there are ways around that.

[drainblocker]

A CE mark cannot just be written by hand 'ce', it must comply to a the standard as set out by the DTI. You need a stamp or engraver ect so it is just right, you won't get a stamp that small.
Also when the boiler is mounted in the frames how on earth does a future boiler inspector see it? and the serial number?

Drainblocker

[ayesha2]

HI drainblocker and mutley
point taken

[russell]

Baggo,

You are quite right. It is illegal to CE mark a boiler of less than 2 litres.

There is a clear summary of the requirements of the Directive here www.cav-escarbille.com/chaudiere/chaudiere_4.htm Sorry it's in French.

Russell.

[drainblocker]

You are quite wrong, look at the top, 0.5 bar litres, in this country we are governed by the Dti's interpretation of the regulation, french law has nothing to do with it. In the uk Category1 is 0.5 bar litres upwards. That page doesn't even look 'official'.

Drain blocker

[ayesha2]

HI all

what has the bar litres got to do with commercial makers i thought this post was about them or at least a SMALL minority of the dodgy ones, and protect the model engineers right to build his own should they have a failure.

yours tony

[ayesha2]

Hi all

are inside straps illegal.

is it illegal not to rivet them to the wrapper has mine has not [any rivets that is]

yours tony

[drainblocker]

Why don't you ask the DTI what bar litres has to do with protecting the model engineer from professional boilermakers? Also ask the DTI: 'Is an inside buttstrap without rivets illegal?', and while you're at it, ask the DTI to read the technical file to you and explain what it means.

- drainblocker

[russell]

Drainblocker,

First, I am not wrong. It is forbidden to CE mark ANY product which is not required to be CE marked by one or more EU Directives.

Second, the page states that it does not apply to pressure vessels of less than or equal to 0.5 Bar. In other words it covers category one and above.

Third, it does not refer to French law but to the EU directive. ALL EU Member States are obliged to incorporate EU directives into nation law. In case you didn't know, the UK is an EU Member State.

As for the page not looking official, you are right. As I said, it is a clear summary of the requirements of the directive, not the definitive text. It is not published by the EU Commission. It is published by the French national society for steam modelers. If you want the official version look for "Directive 97/23/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 May 1997 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States concerning pressure equipment" in the Official Journal NO. L 181 , 09/07/1997.

Russell.

[russell]

Tony,

The number of Bar.Litres determines whether the commercial maker can test and self certify the boiler. If it is rated at less than or equal to 50 Bar.litres he can self certify. Greater than this and the final test has to be monitored by a notified body. Most of our size boilers will be less than 50 so the maker can do his own testing.

As for inside straps and their fixing, provided that the design and testing are are perfomed correctly they are permitted and do not have to be riveted.

Russell.

[baggo]

The full text of the PED etc. can be found on the website of the European Commission:

ec.europa.eu/enterprise/pressure_equipment/ped/directive/directive_preamble_en.html

Guidelines 2/11 and 2/18 deal with the application of higher category conformity procedures to a lower category boiler. They are quite clear:

ec.europa.eu/enterprise/pressure_equipment/ped/guidelines/guideline2-11_en.html

ec.europa.eu/enterprise/pressure_equipment/ped/guidelines/guideline2-18_en.html

[ayesha2]

Hi one and all

have i mentioned any names or suppliers
do you know summat i don,t drainblocker

you seem to be well informed for someone who has just joined

has these are only questions that i would like clarifying by the people who matter the most, the model engineers of this country and of course not forgetting those abroad bless their little cotton socks. you make life and answers interesting

yours tony

[ayesha2]

Hi Russell

thanks, if i may, i congratulate your on an excellent reply just how they should be short sharp an to the point no messin about wiv a lot of rhetoric [nudge nudge]