jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on May 25, 2014 20:45:25 GMT
 i havent managed much the last 2 days, but have been fiddling around with the regulator body and fitting same to the boiler and sorting out a few tweaks to get the smokebox tubeplate fitted. hopefully i should be able to silver solder same to the barrel plus all the tube ends and regulator steam pipe flange and blower pipe flange and longitudinal stays plus the check valve bushes tomorrow all in one go. a couple of points arise which are perhaps worth a mention. the tubes and barrel have been heated up a few times since fitting the inner firebox to the boiler. although same has been dunked in pickle it is not practicable to scrub the ends of the tubes and around the front of the barrel inside. after pickling there is still a lot of dirt left on the surfaces, as a scrub of same in hot soapy water easily reveals on other parts. so although the tube ends and inside of the barrel are 'pink' it is what i would describe as 'dirty pink'. the pic is just a trial assembly and the boiler will have another dunk in the pickle before silver soldering, and soak in hot soapy water and as much of a scrub as i can manage with a tooth brush. you can see in the pic the ring of silver solder ive bent for the smokebox tubeplate to barrel joint. the heat will get directed from outside onto the barrel till this melts (away from the flame), then i know the tubeplate will be hot enough to silver solder the tubes ends and the other bits and bobs. anyway thats what ive done before and hopefully will go according to plan again this time! cheers, julian |
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Post by runner42 on May 26, 2014 8:01:39 GMT
Hi Julian,
looking good. You place a great store on cleaning the joint areas prior to silver soldering. I guess that cleanliness is one of the main tenets of sucessful silver soldering. It can't be too clean!
Brian
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Post by Roger on May 26, 2014 10:35:17 GMT
Hi Julian,
That's so neat. Are there rings of silver solder on the inside of each tube like you did elsewhere with something else?
I imagine copper tarnishes just leaving it out in the open, so do you assemble everything directly after cleaning and then silver solder shortly after in one operation?
I once made the grave error of fluxing up some soft soldered copper pipes for the factory central heating but ran out of time to do all the soldering that day. It was a disaster leaving flux overnight on the joints, it all had to be take apart and cleaned off, it had all gone green! You live and learn!
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on May 26, 2014 11:41:12 GMT
Hi Julian,
You have mentioned several visits to the club for interim inspections. I was wondering if these are logged in any way?
Heaven forbid but if a builder got as far as you with work of that quality, it would be awful if there was no official stamp of approval if said builder fell under the proverbial bus.
Pete.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on May 26, 2014 18:28:57 GMT
hi roger,
i try and do the silver soldering as soon as possible after cleaning the copper. the flux has enough to contend with keeping the copper clean whilst heated up and continually wanting to oxidise.
i dont add rings of silver solder on the tubes ends in the smokebox as the rings would be in direct contact with the flame and might melt before the copper has got up to the required temperature. what looks like rings is in fact a generous chamfer around each hole in the tubeplate.
hi pete,
i try and avoid going near buses! if one did hit me i dont think i'd be worrying about STEPNEY's partly completed boiler anymore! it would just be a partly completed uncertified boiler, though i suppose there are enough pics on here to show that all the internal joints are ok.
cheers,
julian
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on May 27, 2014 17:49:58 GMT
ive now done the smokebox joints on the boiler and sorted out some pics... first and second pics are the bushes and longitudinal stays silver soldered with high melting point silverflo 24 as a sub-assemly third pic is the brazing set up with the regulator and dummy regulator steam pipe fitted so that everything is automatically aligned. the regulator steam pipe dummy rod was then unscrewed afrom the regulator and removed. fourth pic is the still hot smokebox just after silver soldering. the thermalite bits are still glowing red! fifth pic is the finished joints after pickling and scrubbing up. the front check valve bushes on the side of the boiler were done at the same time. cheers, julian      |
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shooter
Part of the e-furniture
If it 'aint broke....don't fix it!
Posts: 252
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Post by shooter on May 27, 2014 17:55:59 GMT
Superb work as always Julian. A lesson in how it should be done.
Cheers for now Steve
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 18:00:14 GMT
I like that Julian... great work and very well explained for us beginners....gives us a good guide to follow when the time comes..
cheers
Pete
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Post by Roger on May 27, 2014 18:24:27 GMT
Fantastic Julian, I seriously think you should consider writing a book about this. I'd certainly buy a copy. If you want someone to co-write it with you, to ask the dumb questions, then I'm game.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on May 27, 2014 19:29:00 GMT
hi roger steve and pete,
you are all far too kind. it is quite a small simple boiler. i can only describe how i make them, and no doubt there are lots who would disagree with my method of construction but havent said so! there is no right or wrong way to build a boiler and we each have developed our own methods and steps that suit each of us as individuals.
the smokebox end is pretty bog standard. i silver solder in the phos bronze longitudinal stays direct to the smokebox tubeplate and backplate which saves a lot of work.
the tubes are an easy fit in the smokebox tubeplate with a generous chamfer on the outside of the holes on the smokebox tubeplate. ive shone a torch inside the barrel and all the joints i can see have a nice fillet on the inside. the sub assembly bits on this build are a pure crib from alec farmer's method of boiler construction as are the silver soldering of the longitudinal stays direct to the plates.
the SPEEDY and DORIS boilers are far more complicated!
cheers,
julian
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Post by Roger on May 27, 2014 19:43:47 GMT
Ah yes Julian, there may well be many ways to do this, but you've figured out a complete set of steps and rules that the rest of us would only have to find out the hard way. Lots of publications talk in general terms about how things should be done but without the detail that you're giving. Practical experience and a wealth of photos is what's needed. That's what makes this thread Gold dust to the likes of me.
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shooter
Part of the e-furniture
If it 'aint broke....don't fix it!
Posts: 252
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Post by shooter on May 27, 2014 20:14:04 GMT
I concur with Roger. Your depth of knowledge and experience is like a "How to do it" bible to the rest of us.
I seriously think that if you were to write a book on the subject it would put you up there with the likes of LBSC in the model engineering world. Your photos and descriptions make it all seem so simple and that was the gift that LBSC had.
Please put me down for a first edition.
Keep up the good work, Steve
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Post by ronhancock on May 27, 2014 20:33:32 GMT
Hey Julian do you think you can move to Midlands so you can show me how you do it Love your work |
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
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Post by uuu on May 27, 2014 20:35:30 GMT
It's interesting to see how boiler construction techniques and design details have developed and improved. Your main steam bush is a mighty thing. The Maisie boiler we have at the Pump House (this may be off a loco you've steamed) just had a hole. No soldered in bush - just a threaded hole. Not that the thread was actually doing anything - the steam manifold was being held in place by the tension of the pipe from the regulator - when that was removed you could just push it in and out. Yet the boiler had been working! Firehole door - just screwed in, no bushes. Blowdown valves - screwed in. Water guage - screwed in.
Wilf
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on May 27, 2014 21:24:14 GMT
hi ron,
great to see you on here! (ron has a rare P.V. Baker design of LBSC)
hi wilf,
yes i remember the loco you are referring to very well as spent 1985/86 in my workshop! i remember thinking at the time this boiler wont last long, and no way will i ever have screwed in fittings direct into the plates on any of my own build locos. if you had seen the loco before 1985 you would be pretty amazed. built by don glasspool and was in atrocious condition. i gather a certain 'Treasurer' ran it into the ground whereas i always took very good care of it.
so long as you stick to a few fundamental well known principles with boiler construction it is pretty easy. the last boiler i did was done in 6 weeks of spare time. STEPNEY's boiler has been a bit more long drawn out what with finishing the cab assembly and making the toolbox, and then 2 months on the LBSCR wagon after xmas.
hopefully just one more (BIG) heat up left to go then off to our club boiler inspector for a test.
cheers,
julian
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Post by arch1947 on May 27, 2014 22:58:40 GMT
Outstanding Julian, I now have something to aim for.
Cheers,
Arch
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 23:57:55 GMT
Julian--------- more useful than a book would be a downloadable pdf file with your contributions from this forum PLUS the "words and music" about your workshop tools used on the job involved........... A small list of to-days suppliers and extracts from current Rules and Regs..........There you are, almost writes itself really....
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on May 28, 2014 0:17:38 GMT
hi alan, to be honest we have such a wonderful fellowship of model engineers on here (and probably everyone who is serious at this daft hobby) that im quite content with what ive done here! if i was thinking of publishing anything i'd have to make another boiler! incidentally the loco that is next on my list (after doing the long delayed overhaul of the GWR KING) is the following...  apart from the dome on top of the firebox the boiler is pretty much identical to STEPNEY's boiler. cheers, julian |
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Geoff
Hi-poster
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Post by Geoff on May 28, 2014 2:39:49 GMT
Julian,
That's a nice looking locomotive and should be fun to build.
The trouble with publishing anything, is that it becomes all consuming, and you really have to want to do it. My father spent 20 years on the ME index (working with others) and the thing took away so much of his workshop time, that I think he sometimes wished he'd never started. It was a labour of love and they only sold a few copies.
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Post by Roger on May 28, 2014 6:14:04 GMT
Julian--------- more useful than a book would be a downloadable pdf file with your contributions from this forum PLUS the "words and music" about your workshop tools used on the job involved........... A small list of to-days suppliers and extracts from current Rules and Regs..........There you are, almost writes itself really.... True, but a book would bring a monetary reward for all of the effort. |
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