BOXHILL by Martin Evans

[keith1500]

Can you not make a drilling jig by drilling through a piece in the lathe. Slot it so it sits over the hinge brackets and in place of the lid. Drill through the brackets and then use the jig by removing the centre part that occupies the lid and substitute the lid in to the drill jig. Now drill through half way from either side. This should now give you lid and bracket holes that aline. Assemble using a small pin. If required not to be visible lightly soft solder over the ends and dress.

[Roger]

Hi Julian,
If you're stuck, just send them to me and I'll put them in from measured dimensions. I'm sure I can do that by dead reckoning with a little careful measurement.

[jma1009]

Thanks for the offer Roger, but all done by 1pm and temporary pins fitted.

I scribed the horizontal centre using I think part of the method Pete suggested - this could easily be measured from the hinge hole in the filler lids. The vertical centre line was worked out by scribing around the hinge outline between the hinge blocks and transferring this to the outside of the hinge blocks. Centre popped and drilled No. 55 then a 1/16" dia hand reamer poked through which got rid of any slight errors (the holes were no more than 5 thou out).

Thank you everyone for your helpful advice.

Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

Here is this morning's job - soft soldering up one of Stepney's side tanks the old fashioned way with sticks of soft solder and Bakers Fluid brushed on.

It looks a bit of a mess but the black dross is where the paint brush hairs got a bit incinerated. Since taking the pic the tank has been dunked in hot soapy water and a quick scrub with a toothbrush easily removed the dross to leave everything looking quite good.

Gentle wide propane flame.

I used some of Jim Scott's ARAX 96 solder first on some of the more important joints.

I also took great care to cover all the rivet heads and 10BA screws.

The backplate needs adding but that is quite straightforward.

Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

Just to show that the black dross did clean off very easily in hot soapy water with a toothbrush!



Both tanks now done apart from soldering up the inside covers/back plates.

Must have got a bit too close to the propane flame and Bakers Fluid as my chest is bad this evening. Will give my chest a few days to recover before doing the final soft soldering of the backplates.

Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

Does anyone else use Bakers Fluid and brushing it on with old fashioned large sticks of plumbers soft anymore?

It was the way I was taught to do tenders and tanks. I am fortunate to have a large amount of old fashioned sticks of plumbers solder.

It is a bit 'old hat' these days, but has a lot to recommend it.

Cheers,
Julian

[runner42]

Hi Julian,

I did and will continue to do so. It was on your advice that I did so, but apart from using resin cored solder what other way is practical? The only difference is that I preloaded the joints with Baker's fluid instead of brushing it on during the soldering process, hence did not get burned brush hairs, but perhaps didn't optimise the use of Baker's fluid because it may have leaked from the joint.

Brian

PS I suppose you have to have a bit of dexterity in swapping the Baker's fluid loaded brush with the plumber's solder stick whilst the other hand is holding the propane torch.

PPS Will you need to modify your approach when soldering the back cover? It looks like it will be screwed to the tank beforehand?

[Jim]

Mar 29, 2016 23:24:16 GMT jma1009 said:

Does anyone else use Bakers Fluid and brushing it on with old fashioned large sticks of plumbers soft anymore?

It was the way I was taught to do tenders and tanks. I am fortunate to have a large amount of old fashioned sticks of plumbers solder.

It is a bit 'old hat' these days, but has a lot to recommend it.

Cheers,
Julian

I'm not sure why soft solder is 'Old Hat' these days. I use it all the time along with 965 solder that plumbers now use for pipe work. I can't think of a suitable alternative to soft solder, especially for plate work.

Jim

[Roger]

I still use Baker's Fluid and soft solder for attaching parts to a fixture so they can be machined if there's no practical way to hold them.

I've not used the new Plumbers Lead Free stick solder, but if it's anything like the Lead Free solder we have to use in the Electronics industry, it's very different to use. The melting point is higher and it's mechanically stronger, which are plus points, but it doesn't flow as well, doesn't 'wet' as well, and is more 'Pasty'. Maybe some of those attributes work to your advantage on jobs like these?

In Electronic assemblies, it's not as easy to make reliable, hence Medical and Military applications are exempt from the directive. Fortunately I've still got loads of the old stuff, so I'll probably stick with that.

[Jim]

965 solder is permitted as a caulking material by our AMBSC boiler code, you can also solder stainless steel with it too. I'm tending to use it more often now in plate work etc because of its greater strength and other properties.

Jim

[Donald G]

Julian
I used to use Bakers Soldering Fluid, until the tin it was in rotted away.

I now use this Fry's Metals Powerflow Flux Medium - 100g tub. I , like you apply it with a brush and I find it works very well. The advantage I had was I found it difficult to find a suppler to collect from, as it cannot be posted I am told. This I got from the well know on line supplier and had it in 2 days.
My tanks are all soft soldered and very strong.

Donald

[GWR 101]

Julian

Like Donald the bottom of the tin came away so I had to resort to paste, which works ok. You will see that the stick of solder is quite hefty, we have an "old style" engineering/ironmongers not far away and they stock the solder but not the Bakers Fluid. Hope the hearth (barbie) is acceptable, must admit don't get to use the irons much these days but reluctant to dispose of them just in case. Many thanks for the kind mention regarding Juliet regards Paul.

[jma1009]

I am very grateful for the above comments!

Glad to hear the old fashioned methods are still alive and in use!

Donald, my tin of Bakers Fluid also rusted through the base - bought from W Hurst and Sons Newport IW in 1983. I only threw it away this year - it was living in a plastic bag. I decanted what was left of the contents when doing bits of the cab and cab roof. Ebay recently provided the new plastic bottle which can be seen in one of the above pics - which rather surprisingly was sent via ordinary post.

Paul's pic of the soft solder sticks is exactly the same as I've been using.

Anyway today's offering. Having said I would have a day or so's rest I thought what the heck get the damn things finished so soft soldered up the inside backplate to what I did yesterday. Far more straightforward and didnt take very long for both tanks - adding the 10BA screws to secure same in all the existing tapped holes took longer.

There is only one 3/16" dia hole on the bottom of each tank, so each tank was filled up with soapy water with a finger over the hole on the bottom, and no leaks apparent so far. Tank capacity 1 pint each tank. So pleased Ive also made the LBSCR wagon to go behind for extra water and coal.

My soft soldering is not very neat I'm afraid but as most of it is hidden I'm not going to worry too much.



Cheers,
Julian

[Roger]

An excellent job Julian, I think that's pretty neat. Solder has a mind of its own and runs everywhere it's not needed given half a chance. The main thing is there's clearly a nice fillet everywhere you do want it, so I'm not surprised it sealed without any trouble. I look forward to doing mine and I'm taking notes!

[Deleted]

in another world, that of building brass locomotives in O gauge I do a lot of soft soldering using bakers fluid using a variety of different temps of solder, down as low as 70 degrees. The usual method is bakers fluid brushed on along the joint, iron tinned first with a good electrical type solder, iron then loader with required solder and run along the joint, needs a hot iron but the joint is very quick and neat. I've also used this method on some of the brasswork on 4472 brass tender body, I'll use it again for the cab too....you don't have to use an iron, a micro blowtorch will do just as well, better in some cases..

Pete

[Jim]

The micro torches supplied from time to time by a certain German grocery chain work a treat and I use mine just as Pete describes on either the 5"G or the 'O'gauge Midland locos.

Jim

[jma1009]

The tanks are now fixed to the running boards, and cab spectacle plate with 8BA bolts.

Rather than a boring pic of more of the tanks on the loco, here's a pic of one of the tanks set up on the Fobco Star for drilling all the fixing holes, in carefully positioned blocks inside the tanks. The tapped holes are blind holes in the tanks in these blocks. There was no point doing them before the tanks were soldered up in case they got filled up with soft solder.

The table of the Fobco Star is used to support the tank and keep it aligned for the drilling 71 thou tapping size. Despite using 71 thou instead of No. 50 70 thou I still managed to break an old plug tap in one of the holes - but luckily with a pair of pincer pliars the remains came out ok. Phew - big sigh of relief!

I have to add the the flange for the exhaust 'dome' blanking off piece, at the front of the tanks, as Stepney has no exhaust dome, plus a few other details, but otherwise that is the tank construction finished thank goodness.

Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

Here is today's offering.

There was one outstanding job on the bottom of the side tanks and that was drilling and tapping the fixings (8BA stainless screws) for the balance pipe connections. This was done for both today. Due to my scale width running boards and side tanks there isnt really enough room for the usual screwed in elbow connector and union nut pipe connection to same. So I did a simple flange connection. The blocks of brass were turned down to produce a spigot 3/16" dia that fits into holes drilled into the tank bases. Then a flange was silver soldered on with 8BA clearance holes 7/16" apart. An 'O' ring provides the seal when the screws are tightened up. The screws go into tapped blind holes in blocks fitted inside the tanks as per all the other side tank fixings.

There is a cut out same shape as the flange in the running boards.

All the pipework previously shown for the balance pipes etc has now been tested with water under pressure. Still no leaks so far!

Anyway a pic of same.



Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

I have major building work at home next week whilst the rear roof of the house is replaced.

As I hate platework, it might be an ideal opportunity to make the tank and coal bunker to fit inside the LBSCR wagon. It is quite a simple job. I have always thought tender superstructures much easier to make than side tanks. I have all the brass sheet, though I also have the option of making it out of thin copper from an old domestic water tank.

Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

Here is the last few evening's efforts.



If you go back a few pages to 27th December you will see David (Midland)'s excellent pictures of the tank tops, with at the front of the tanks the blanking off plates for the Stroudley 'Exhaust domes' for the condenser arrangement. The domes were removed from Stepney in the early 1930's, so mine needs the same blanking off plates as still has in preservation.

Anyway here is my attempt to replicate same with holes for 12BA brass bolts. One hole tapped on each then the 12BA broke on on the 7th hole. It had already broken and reground so was a bit 'iffy'. Unfortunately my only 12BA tap! How on earth Jim with his Brit does 16BA only has my fullest admiration and respect!

The offending hole is circled with marker pen and is doused with ferric chloride solution in the hope it might dissolve the remains of the tap, or allow it to be punched out easily from the surrounding brass plate- no sign of this yet!

Cheers,
Julian