Help with 'Speedy' valve gear and other issues...

[ivattlms]

Hi Roger. Any photos of mc/ink buffer steps steps thanx

[Roger]

Dec 15, 2018 17:23:48 GMT 92220 said:

Dec 15, 2018 9:43:33 GMT Roger said:

Thanks Bob,
How would you suggest I paint the whole thing? The thickness of the back plate has been made exactly the same as the rebait so that back is flat against the buffer. I could clean it all off and bolt the back plate on with a metal to metal contact and then prime everything except the bore and the main back thread. I need to get red paint under the step before adding that, so perhaps it's going to take one coat on each part, let it cure and add the step with the rivets being bare metal, then spray over the whole thing? I could prime the tops of the rivets, they only get pushed into the hole with a tiny spot of Loctite, so the heads could be primed before they're fitted.
Does that sound plausible? Obviously on the real thing, the back plate is painted separately, but I've allowed quite a big chamfer so perhaps painting it as one piece is acceptable?

Hi Roger.

That does sound a reasonable way of doing it as the buffer stocks have to be the same colour as the buffer beam. When I originally painted my buffer stocks, they were already assembled to the buffer beam and so I just masked off the frames, and the edges of the buffer beam as they are Black, with brown packing paper and low tack masking tape, and sprayed the whole lot Red. Now I've replaced the footsteps on my buffer stocks, with the dimples pressed in as a diamond pattern instead of the wrong square pattern, I have to repaint so I shall do exactly the same and, using low tack plastic masking tape (Precision or Tamiya) I shall just repaint the whole lot. As the paint film won't be more than a couple of thou at the most, the extra coat of paint on the buffer beam won't be a problem. I don't know what colour 1501 has on the edges of the buffer beam but BR always painted the edges Black, with just the face of the beam, and the stocks, painted Red.

Bob.

Thanks Bob. I was going to paint the buffer face Red all the way across but mask off the mating face on the buffer stock, leaving that just primed. I suppose I could just bolt the buffer stocks on metal to metal and then spray the whole thing like you did though. Did you prime all of it first or leave the mating surfaces as bare metal?


Just the face is Red on 1501, the edges are black as you suspected.

[johnthepump]

Dec 15, 2018 16:40:53 GMT terrier060 said:

Have you got a drawing Roger for the blowdown? It looks a grand job and I have very limited space on the Terriers so I think I am going to fit them.

Hi Ed,

The everlasting blowdown valve is described complete with dimensioned drawings in LBSC’s Shop Shed and Road, starting on page 168 of the Martin Evans edited version.

Hope this helps John.

[Roger]

Dec 15, 2018 21:48:02 GMT johnthepump said:

Dec 15, 2018 16:40:53 GMT terrier060 said:

Have you got a drawing Roger for the blowdown? It looks a grand job and I have very limited space on the Terriers so I think I am going to fit them.

Hi Ed,

The everlasting blowdown valve is described complete with dimensioned drawings in LBSC’s Shop Shed and Road, starting on page 168 of the Martin Evans edited version.

Hope this helps John.

I think my interpretation is quite a bit over scale, but that's ok since it's not seen. I've gone for a 4mm hold in mine, I don't know how that compares to the LBSC version and the overall size.

[David]

Loving the blowdown valve. It never occurred to me to solder a stub end onto another stub.

[steamer5]

Hi Ed,

Here you go......thought I had lost it in my computa death....


livesteamt3.blogspot.com/2016/06/everlasting-blowdown-valve.html

Happy building....... pictures please!

Cheers Kerrin

[Roger]

Thanks for posting that Kerrin. From those dimensions for 7-1/4" I recon mine is twice as big as it ought to be for scale appearances!

Making it bigger does leave plenty of room for an 'O' ring seal though. I'd probably have made it smaller had I known how small they actually are.

[92220]

Hi Roger.

If you want a copy of the drawing for the blow-down valve, PM me.

Bob


Edit.    I've just got the drawing out to look at it. It is actually an assembly drawing of the valve showing the internals. There are dimensions so it can be scaled on the computer to bring it to full-size and measure it. The drawing is SL/DN/W-849 !.1/2" Regulator Model W Everlasting Blowoff cock Flanged Inlet, Screwed Outlet. 

[Roger]

Dec 16, 2018 9:08:04 GMT 92220 said:

Hi Roger.

If you want a copy of the drawing for the blow-down valve, PM me.

Bob


Edit.    I've just got the drawing out to look at it. It is actually an assembly drawing of the valve showing the internals. There are dimensions so it can be scaled on the computer to bring it to full-size and measure it. The drawing is SL/DN/W-849 !.1/2" Regulator Model W Everlasting Blowoff cock Flanged Inlet, Screwed Outlet. 

Thanks Bob, but I've already made much of it. As long as it's neat, tidy and functional between the frames, that's good enough. The main thing is that it nicely solves the problem of how to operate the valves in the position they're in.

[92220]

That's good Roger. As long as you are happy with the info that you have, giving you what you want, I'll bet nobody will be able to tell that it's not made to drawings! It's not easily seen anyway, on the front of the firebox.

Bob.

[Roger]

Dec 16, 2018 10:22:35 GMT 92220 said:

That's good Roger. As long as you are happy with the info that you have, giving you what you want, I'll bet nobody will be able to tell that it's not made to drawings! It's not easily seen anyway, on the front of the firebox.

Bob.

Well, it's slightly annoying, but I had no idea what size they were to scale so I just guessed. There's no way to see them because the side tanks obscure the only path you would be able to see them by. It would waste several days to redesign them and get back to where I am and there's no real benefit from doing it. Functionally they would be identical, and you still wouldn't see them!

It's not a 'to works drawings' model, so what's unseen isn't something I'm going to worry too much about.

[92220]

Hi Roger. My buffer stocks are metal to metal on the buffer beam, then painted as one. This seals the joint.

Bob.

[Roger]

Dec 16, 2018 11:30:41 GMT 92220 said:

Hi Roger. My buffer stocks are metal to metal on the buffer beam, then painted as one. This seals the joint.

Bob.

Thanks for clarifying that Bob, I'll probably do the same then.

[Deleted]

Hi Roger

Just been catching up on the buffer stock discussion, you may remember that on FS the stocks are black so can't be painted after. In regards to the direction taken in the discussion, I don't see there being any problem in regards to the buffer stock to beam not being sealed of any consequence. On FS I loctited in the 8 studs and once cured ground too length, I painted the nuts separately and left to harden, when attaching the buffers the paint was barely touched by the box spanner used, any marks are very easy to touch in later and invisible, even if you get in real close which anybody looking at the model wouldn't do anyway.

regards

Pete

[Roger]

Dec 16, 2018 12:31:27 GMT @greenglade said:

Hi Roger

Just been catching up on the buffer stock discussion, you may remember that on FS the stocks are black so can't be painted after. In regards to the direction taken in the discussion, I don't see there being any problem in regards to the buffer stock to beam not being sealed of any consequence. On FS I loctited in the 8 studs and once cured ground too length, I painted the nuts separately and left to harden, when attaching the buffers the paint was barely touched by the box spanner used, any marks are very easy to touch in later and invisible, even if you get in real close which anybody looking at the model wouldn't do anyway.

regards

Pete

Hi Pete,
Here's a picture of the arrangement, and you can see that the stocks are actually Red.

That's interesting the way you did the nuts separately, I might do that in some places.


DSCN5610 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

[Deleted]

yes, sorry Roger, I am aware that BR livery is all red, I was mainly referring to the need for any sort of seal between the two is IMHO insignificant, I highlighted FS being of a different colour just as an example. It's also clear to see in your picture that the joints aren't sealed.

Cheers

Pete

[terrier060]

Dec 16, 2018 8:45:38 GMT steamer5 said:

Hi Ed,

Here you go......thought I had lost it in my computa death....


livesteamt3.blogspot.com/2016/06/everlasting-blowdown-valve.html

Happy building....... pictures please!

Cheers Kerrin

Hi John and Kerrin - thanks for that - I have that book by LBSC - I will get it out.  Sorry Roger, hope you don't mind the intrusion in your thread but it is relevant.  Very neat idea.  I hate the taper screw on my B-Lowke tank engine as it takes ages to open and as there is no gland one ends up with burnt fingers!  It will be well hidden under the footplate of the Terriers.

[Roger]

Hi Ed,
Of course I don't mind, it's all interesting. These valves allow the opening mechanism to be placed where there would otherwise be great difficulty in accessing a conventional screw type.

[pault]

When playing big trains in Poland most of the locos had a blowdown on each corner of the throat plate. They were operated by a system of levers which ended in a bar one of which was at the fireman feet when seated and the other at the drivers feet. To open the valve you lifted the bar at your feet. The bar was positioned so you could stand on it if required to shut the valve. The instructions were you never opened both valves at the same time, just in case you couldn't close them.one valve stuck open was manageable, two stuck open was throw the fire time.

[Roger]

This is a Steel Fixture to hold the halves so they could be faced off. It's being held in place with the live centre


20181216_140709 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

The fixture has M1.6 tapped holes, so it can hold either part since it clears the M2.5 threads.

The boss was then clocked up and the stub was turned to 8mm and then the thread was screw cut. I have a bush with an M8 x 1 thread so that I can use it as a gauge.

The 'O' ring groove was cut then too. There's no way to know what angle this will be at when it is screwed home, and it needs to be pretty close to the 3D model I showed earlier.

20181216_175814 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

I managed to overshoot the position on both of these, so I had to sweat some Lead Free Solder onto the face to bring it back again. Here they are finally in the right position with them done up tightly. One of them will have to resist the opening force and not unscrew. I think the best solution is to put a link between the two of them so neither of them can turn.

20181216_220821 by Roger Froud, on Flickr

The next step is to machine the backs of each half.