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Post by 92220 on Sept 18, 2021 8:14:22 GMT
Hi Roger.
Like Steve, I've seen shelves that have come down due to overloading (No, not mine, I hasten to add!!). I would agree with Steve, but to add to that, I would suggest the extra screw fixings are towards the top rather than just midway between the other screws.....at least above the halfway point. The whole assembly is going to want to rotate about the bottom edge of the bracket, so fixings lower down, are not going to take as much vertical load as towards the top.
The other way to get over this is to just have the fixing brackets above the shelf rather than below it, so that everything is hanging, and thus being pressed against the wall instead of away from it. You would still need a couple of extra fixings above the halfway point, for safety, though there would be far less tendency for screws/rawlplugs to pull out of the wall. Loading would be much more vertical.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Sept 18, 2021 11:11:28 GMT
Plus, be careful not to over tighten the screws. Very easy with a battery drill which is what I did with the spur shelves in my garage. Come in one Sunday morning and thought I was seeing things!; The middle section of shelves had dropped by 6inches where each counter sunk heads had popped off one off the vertical rails. Of course you have the luxury of being able to position the holes nicely on a brick. A 6mm chem fix along with washer and nuts would be my approach. Thanks for that. I don't have a usable battery drill at the moment, the batteries have long since died. That's another project, I want to make a ultra quick charge SuperCapacitor power pack for that, because batteries are only good if you use them regularly. These tools don't use smart enough chargers to protect the batteries. It's not as heavy as you might imagine, I can lift it with one hand. However, it does need a decent mounting.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,064
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Post by jem on Sept 18, 2021 16:42:18 GMT
In a case like that, I would and have cut holes in the wall and put the angle well into the wall and mortered it up. or perhaps you can put bolts right through the wall depending what is on the other side. You could put another couple of angles under it to hold a drawer for the tools, which would keep them more dust proof. If this is not worth it, bring the steel verticals up above the shelf, which would make it much safer.
only trying to be helpful
Jem
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Post by Roger on Sept 18, 2021 16:47:21 GMT
In a case like that, I would and have cut holes in the wall and put the angle well into the wall and mortered it up. or perhaps you can put bolts right through the wall depending what is on the other side. You could put another couple of angles under it to hold a drawer for the tools, which would keep them more dust proof. If this is not worth it, bring the steel verticals up above the shelf, which would make it much safer. only trying to be helpful Jem Thanks Jem, It's actually not as heavy as you might imagine though. I'll see how it goes when I drill the fixings. The bricks are really strong.
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Post by fubar123 on Sept 18, 2021 17:13:24 GMT
Hi Roger, Do you have any more details about you 4th axis ? it looks really useful and was planning on something similar to connect to an XYZ mill. With the aid of fusion 360 3d milling looks to have many useful applications ( Rather than buying castings ). Chris
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,907
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Post by JonL on Sept 18, 2021 17:56:56 GMT
I'm terrible at trusting rawl plugs; I smear no-more-nails on them when I put them in!
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,808
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Post by uuu on Sept 18, 2021 18:09:08 GMT
If you can, drill into the belly of the brick, not the mortar.
Wilf
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Post by Roger on Sept 18, 2021 20:47:30 GMT
If you can, drill into the belly of the brick, not the mortar. Wilf That's the plan, I've made the holes on the same pitch as each row of bricks too, so it ought to pick up the same part of the brick. We'll have to see how that works out.
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Post by Roger on Sept 18, 2021 20:54:33 GMT
I haven't taken that many pictures of this, it's not that interesting. Here are a few of the steps along the way though. 20210918_113242 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr 20210918_150430 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr 20210918_163531 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr 20210918_192503 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr The welding went remarkably well, I'm pretty pleased that those. 20210918_213354 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr There were one or two places where the fit wasn't great, and some of the welding angles were really hard to access. However, it's done now. As you can see, I've added an extra bar across the top to allow another two screws higher up. In hindsight, I'd have done better to have made the back angles go on up past the main deck of the bracket. Anyway, it's massively strong, much stronger than it needs to be. There will have to be a cutout at the front to miss the Hex nut that clamps the table in position. Other than that, it's somewhere near the shape it needs to be. I'll give it a try with the 4th axis tomorrow and see what else needs to be done. 20210918_213424 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Sept 18, 2021 21:09:15 GMT
Hi Roger, Do you have any more details about you 4th axis ? it looks really useful and was planning on something similar to connect to an XYZ mill. With the aid of fusion 360 3d milling looks to have many useful applications ( Rather than buying castings ). Chris Hi Chris, If you go to page 653 on this thread, you'll see how that was done. It's very useful, but you have to be aware of its limitations. The AC Servo is pretty stiff, and it's always going to fight really hard to stay in position on heavy cuts. However, you can feel the limit of its stiffness when you try to overpower the servo by hand. Commercial 4th axes are much stiffer, but the price it frightening. I concluded that any movement I was going to get with heavy roughing wouldn't matter because it was going to have a finishing cut when it wouldn't be an issue. So far this has proven to be the case. The second thing you need to be aware of is that this style of rotary table is really tall. I've got a long column extension spacer on my mill, so it's less of an issue. However, I did fit a slimline 4-jaw chuck to make it as compact as possible. It might have been a better bet to have bought the next size down instead. I'm very happy with it though, and having a tilting one is infinitely more useful than a fixed one. The most useful thing is being able to start with it vertical and then tip it over, knowing that the part is still at the same angle. Obviously repeated operations like gear cutting is now easy, but it's not something I do often enough to justify it. However, once you have one, you won't want to go back, it's so useful.
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Post by terrier060 on Sept 18, 2021 21:58:11 GMT
I see Roger that Tormach have just produced a fourth axis for my machine but at a cost of about £2,500.
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Post by Roger on Sept 19, 2021 7:08:18 GMT
I see Roger that Tormach have just produced a fourth axis for my machine but at a cost of about £2,500. Ouch, that's expensive! I expect it's a proper job though, with a harmonic drive or similar to eliminate backlash. I presume they include the Stepper Motor drive in that price, I imagine a 3-axis machine only has three drives. You could probably buy just the Stepper Motor drive and Stepper Motor from them, or go the whole hog and interface your own setup. After all, it's only going to be a Step & Direction output, and Enable signal to tell the drive what to do. You could hang anything you like on the end of that as long as you know the number of steps it outputs to turn 360 degrees. Actually, they probably can configure that in the software, so you could probably fit any third party 4th axis with that type of interface. I've had a quick look, and someone has already done this here. I trade stiffness for lack of backlash, and that seems to be an acceptable compromise. Harmonic drives are prohibitively expensive. I looked at that option when designing mine, and even small ones that have been used go for the £400 mark, and you have no idea what you're getting. In reality, you don't usually need the accuracy that you get with those. Obviously in industry, you need a very rigid and accurate solution, but we can get away with something less so. One day I might make an even smaller motor pulley, but that would have to be bonded onto the shaft because there's not enough room to go smaller with the current, already compact, arrangement. Still, as long as there's a way to pull it off, that's not a big problem.
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2021 11:40:34 GMT
Here's the final result of this mini infrastructure project. There are now ten really strong fixings, much more than is really needed, but better too many than too few. 20210920_112239 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr It takes up space that was otherwise unused, and it makes it much more convenient for rapidly switching the 4th axis over. Ok, it's taken over a day's work to do it, but I find these projects uniquely satisfying. I can't we doing with tripping over things and struggling when a solution is at hand. The sooner I do these things when they occur to me, the earlier I get the benefit. 20210920_112537 by Georgia Montgomery, on Flickr
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Post by keith1500 on Sept 20, 2021 12:28:02 GMT
Well, that must tick your 5S box.
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2021 14:39:42 GMT
Well, that must tick your 5S box. Ah yes, good old 5S. I used to do work for BAE Systems, and they used to be forced to throw away things they hadn't used for a few years. The problem was that they had to go and buy them again, because the things they were used for only happened every few years. The guys there used to squirrel away some of the things that they were told to throw away because it was a criminal waste. When they closed down, they gave me a ton of cutters and other useful bits and pieces they saved, because they were sizes and tools that were deemed unnecessary to keep. Doubtless there's some sense to 5S in a general environment, but in Maintenance it makes little sense to me. I don't like clutter or keep things that would never be useful, but I'm not about to throw away or dispose of something that I know one day will be really useful.
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Post by keith1500 on Sept 20, 2021 16:29:51 GMT
The one bit of 5S I adopt is having more than one tool of its going to be In frequent use or form part of a set. That in its self save loads of time rummaging around for the tool. The other discipline is putting things back where you expect to find them. Consequently I have a tool box for the loco, one for the car, one for DIY and stuff in the workshop. Grab the right box and you are good to go.
....more time for model engineering etc.
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2021 17:25:16 GMT
The one bit of 5S I adopt is having more than one tool of its going to be In frequent use or form part of a set. That in its self save loads of time rummaging around for the tool. The other discipline is putting things back where you expect to find them. Consequently I have a tool box for the loco, one for the car, one for DIY and stuff in the workshop. Grab the right box and you are good to go. ....more time for model engineering etc. Agreed, I've doubled up on tools that are used for the Lathe or Mill and I keep them on a shadow board or to hand in a fixed location. All of my tools are grouped in Lin Bins so I know where to find them. There's always more that can be done though, my setup is far from perfect. I don't have a tool box for the car though, I do as little on that as possible! Fortunately it's pretty reliable, even though it's not as good as the Japanese cars I've had until this one. I'm afraid German Engineering isn't all it's cracked up to be. Japanese is much better in my experience, as is their Quality Control.
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Post by silverfox on Sept 20, 2021 17:29:06 GMT
My dumb question of the week
What is 5S?
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rrmrd66
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 339
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Post by rrmrd66 on Sept 20, 2021 17:35:10 GMT
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Post by jon38r80 on Sept 21, 2021 9:51:53 GMT
Bit like you will feel better if you start the day with the 3s's
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