44767
Statesman
Posts: 539
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Post by 44767 on Nov 23, 2013 0:05:49 GMT
Hi Ray,
Should I have said all the class 3's (including tender versions) were scrapped? I'm well aware of the 82045 trust. I am a life member of the trust and go to visit the team building it whenever I'm in the UK. They were not able to help directly with drawings as there are copyrights on them and they didn't want to get off side with the NRM. Even BRSLOG wouldn't help for similar reasons. I'm not blaming them but I then took it on myself to obtain the drawings. I have purchased about 200 so far. Therefore this will be a very accuarate model. Occaisionally the trust has helpoed me with drawings which aren't available and where they have reverse engineered components from other locomotives.
There has been interest in my design for a 7 ¼" version so that may yet happen.
I don't want to hijack Vulcan's thread so I will start my own describing the building of my model soon.
Mike
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 23, 2013 8:05:28 GMT
Well done on getting that many drawings, there's only the GA for mine!
That top slide casting looks very good, its one of the bits that Dave and I have been looking at and trying to figure out how we're (he's) going to get round it. At the moment I think he's quite keen to get the pony truck built up, having made quite a few parts of it already. Plodding through the brake gear is all very well but he's nothing to hang it off yet!
One of the other things Dave is trying to find is details of the wheels, pony, tender and driving. We feel that the castings are too expensive and not accurate enough to justify the expense. By my rough calculations, if you scale up the wheel rims back to full size, they would be about 10" thick! I've seen too many models spoilt by having wheel rims that are far too thick. We're hoping that we'll be able to find the drawings when we go to York next week.
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 539
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Post by 44767 on Nov 23, 2013 20:04:35 GMT
Ray,
If you're going to the museum you'll be able to have a look at the microfilm slides on the projectors. You can't order copies directly from the museum as they are processed by an outside firm.
I have looked at my list of microfilms they have and the ones you want for the 9F wheels are
SL/DE/20830 DRIVING WHEEL
SL/DE/20831 LEADING AND TRAILING WHEELS
SL/DE/20838 BALANCE WEIGHT PLATES
SL/DE/21601 LEADING INTERMEDIATE AND TRAILING INTERMEDIATE WHEELS
You don't need to arrange a time to see these just ask at the counter to view them and they'll get them out of the filing cabinet and leave you to view them. It's only hard copies of drawings which are kept in the archives for which you need an appointment to view. They're always wery helpful.
I hope this helps.
Mike
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Post by RGR 60130 on Nov 23, 2013 20:23:13 GMT
At the Harrogate show a number of years ago an excellent example of a 9F was displayed on the Phoenix Precision Paints stand, being built by Bob Shepherd if memory serves me right. It was a very fine scale model done to works drawings. I have a feeling the wheels were done by EDM and a spare set were being offered for sale. I'd imagine someone on the forum may remember and be able to confirm this. If I've got my facts right then a couple of phone calls might save re-inventing the (true scale) wheel.
Reg
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 23, 2013 20:53:01 GMT
Ray, If you're going to the museum you'll be able to have a look at the microfilm slides on the projectors. You can't order copies directly from the museum as they are processed by an outside firm. I have looked at my list of microfilms they have and the ones you want for the 9F wheels are SL/DE/20830 DRIVING WHEEL SL/DE/20831 LEADING AND TRAILING WHEELS SL/DE/20838 BALANCE WEIGHT PLATES SL/DE/21601 LEADING INTERMEDIATE AND TRAILING INTERMEDIATE WHEELS You don't need to arrange a time to see these just ask at the counter to view them and they'll get them out of the filing cabinet and leave you to view them. It's only hard copies of drawings which are kept in the archives for which you need an appointment to view. They're always wery helpful. I hope this helps. Mike You're a beauty! We've been trying to study the 'listings' now published for the drawings avalible, so far we're struggling, you've just saved us an age of work - we owe you a beer! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 21:13:43 GMT
You can't order copies directly from the museum as they are processed by an outside firm. Actually you can, but you won't get them the same day - they will post the copies on to you, provided you pay the money up front. Alternatively you can order by post, providing you know the drawing numbers. I think you can download the order form from the NRM website. Beware the copies are not cheap! I've obtained many drawings from NRM for the BR standard 4MT, which I'm building as close to scale as I can. I agree with EJP's remark about wheel thickness, as it means having to move the cylinders out and the frames in to compensate for over-thick wheels. I suppose it depends on whether you want a showcase model, or one that will stay on the track! By the way I too am a life member of the 82045 Trust, and frequently send spare cash their way. Of all the various new builds, this one will be by far the most useful, and I'm greatly looking forward to seeing it finished. |
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 539
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Post by 44767 on Nov 23, 2013 22:38:03 GMT
I've obtained many drawings from NRM for the BR standard 4MT, which I'm building as close to scale as I can. Are you doing the tank version or the tender version? There are many common parts for the class 3 tank and the class 4 mogul. e.g. they used the same cylinders, end covers,valve cross head guide and valve gear. The difference in the gear was the lifting mechanism. The tank version had a reach rod from the screw in the cab whereas the mogul had the screw directly operating the weighshaft. Many of the other parts are the same too. How far have you got with your model? Mike |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 23:02:42 GMT
I'm building the 2-6-4 tank version but I don't want to hijack the 9F thread, so I'll just say it's been a frustrating build so far with many parts having to be re-made! PM me and I will explain further.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 23:14:02 GMT
At the Harrogate show a number of years ago an excellent example of a 9F was displayed on the Phoenix Precision Paints stand, being built by Bob Shepherd if memory serves me right. It was a very fine scale model done to works drawings. I have a feeling the wheels were done by EDM and a spare set were being offered for sale. I'd imagine someone on the forum may remember and be able to confirm this. The 9F is indeed being built by Bob Shephard (note spelling) who was the former owner of Precision Paints. After selling the business he retired to a location not far from me, and I was privileged to see his loco in his workshop recently. It was also shown at the recent Midlands exhibition. Bob's wheels are cast in stainless steel (yes stainless!) and are a beauty to behold. |
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 24, 2013 9:02:20 GMT
Is it me or is the search facility on the website rubbish....
Going through the Derby listing this morning I've found quite a few drawings to look at. One with relevance to a previous post is SL/DE/19601, front buffer beam and gussets! I've been trying to get Dave to do the front beams so he can mount up his buffers and get then get it painted...he keeps resisting because Les' gussets are wrong...I might finally get him to do it!
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Post by vulcanbomber on Nov 24, 2013 20:20:50 GMT
Thanks for the heads up with the drawing numbers for the wheels. I (me and Ed) have been long thinking about the wheels and how to make them. We've rattled it down to a couple of options at the minute, 1, Turn them from solid steel, then mount onto a fixture and mill the spokes with a small ball nose cutter, only issue there at the minute is that Ed's mill isnt up and running and 2, Ed's electric meter will take some nailing down to do it! Option 2 at the minute is to use the 5 axis Lathe at our work, that has a few problems, 1 being the fact we cant get on it, 2 being the amount of time we'd need it! Option 3 is the last place I worked are going to be getting a new Lathe at some point, with live tooling, if they have listened to me then they'll get a 9 axis, twin spindle affair that I might be enticed back to play on, if they do then i'll be able to use that machine to make the wheels 2 at a time. 44767 do you have prices in mind for the castings yet? I've been making "spares" as I go (got a boiler to fund after all) so if theres any bits you'd swap or such like then let me know. |
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Post by vulcanbomber on Dec 1, 2013 20:35:17 GMT
Dont worry I havnt gone quiet!!! Today i've got a pic of the Pony Truck Pivot..  Ed Turned this for me at work while he had nothing to do (and he's got to do something to earn a drive), then, because my Dad has nothing to do at his work (he's a very very good miller) he's milled it for me... Les Warnett decided that this part of the model should be fabricated from 2 bits of angle, a bit of flat plate and a washer, I decided other wise. Yesterday I was at York, and had a good nose around 92220 Evening Star and the full size method is a bit of bent plate. The one i've done for the model is pretty close to looking right. In other news, we had a look at alot of the drawings of the frames and the stretchers and me and Edward have realized just how many bits Les Warnett has changed or even missed out in the frames of the model, so I will (when funds allow) be getting copies of the drawings for the frames and stretchers to make the bits Les has missed out. |
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taff
Hi-poster
President of City of Newport M.E.S. Chairman, Rivet Counters Fellowship.
Posts: 161
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Post by taff on Dec 1, 2013 23:15:02 GMT
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VULCAN bomber, just as a matter of interest we had the first eight of the 9f's at Ebbw juinction No's 92000 to 92007 and they were used on the iron ore trains both as lead engine banker being another 9f. when you had fired one of them on these train, you realy knew you had done a days work. Incidentally would you happen to have been the pi;ot of the vulcan bomber whih flew low over tredegar house about ten yewrs ago and shook the house to its foundations nearly destroying south east wales's only statly house.
Taff.
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Post by ejparrott on Dec 2, 2013 9:18:21 GMT
I think Dave was still trying to learn how to add 2 and 2 ten years ago.....
Taff perhaps you know, what is the point of the clip on the brake hangers? Les has drawn a representation of the clip, with the actual hanger pin riveted to it. Looking at the drawings at York, and later at 92220, its completely different, the pin is a normal headed pin, with a washer and split pin inside the frames, so it can't come out anyway. Then the clip just sits over the head of it. I can't see it serving any purpose at all!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 9:54:32 GMT
I have a question for Pete too or anyone else familiar with this loco .... on the 0 gauge guild there's a thread asking what colour were the inner frames on the 9F's... anyone know for sure?
Pete
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 2, 2013 10:44:30 GMT
I have a question for Pete too or anyone else familiar with this loco .... on the 0 gauge guild there's a thread asking what colour were the inner frames on the 9F's... anyone know for sure? Pete A black mixture of oil, coal dust and ash would be about right? Richard |
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Post by ejparrott on Dec 2, 2013 13:31:04 GMT
I understand they were black, nothing but black with the exception only of the buffer beams.
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Post by vulcanbomber on Dec 2, 2013 19:45:10 GMT
[/quote] No, I'm only 25. 10 years ago there wernt any Airworthy Vulcan's either. |
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Post by vulcanbomber on Dec 2, 2013 20:04:43 GMT
I have a question for Pete too or anyone else familiar with this loco .... on the 0 gauge guild there's a thread asking what colour were the inner frames on the 9F's... anyone know for sure? Pete Hows this for an answer...... I was at the rail Musem in york on saturday and took these pics of the insides of Evening stars Frames..     Hope that helps. David. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 20:19:03 GMT
Hi David Well it's kind of an unknown which is why I asked the question as I believe some here serviced these grand machines during BR days... It's not really my question it's for a member of the 0 Gauge guild... in a thread on their forum there is a picture of evening star which shows the red as you have kindly posted here. The problem is there's two camps of thought as to whether they were black during service...is the red only since preserved days.. personally I have no idea as it's not my era whereas i do know that LNER and GWR loco's did have red between the frames around the main driving wheels, ie not forward of the cylinders or rear of the firebox which was black or it was as far as LNER is concerned. btw great pictures...  Pete |
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