jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Dec 2, 2013 21:21:18 GMT
dont forget EVENING STAR had some special treatment when built at Swindon. copper capped GWR chimney, full passenger livery in green. the colour of the 'red' in ed's pics above looks suspiciously like the old GWR vermillion/china red, rather than ordinary BR signal red. difficult to accurately tell from photos though.
cheers,
julian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 23:19:52 GMT
what colour were the inner frames on the 9F's... anyone know for sure? The question of inside frame colour on the BR Standards is a thorny one. Several years ago I took a close look at no.70013 when it had just arrived at Loughborough for restoration. The boiler and wheels had been removed and I was able to have a good look inside the frames. It was obvious that they had not been re-painted during its time at Bressingham, because all the BR muck and grime was still there. Moreover, I can say without a shadow of doubt that they were painted BLACK under the muck. All that changed during its restoration, and the inside frames are now RED. All of the other preserved Standards that I've seen have red inside frames, except for the 9F that was restored at the Mid-Hants (no.92212, currently on loan to the Bluebell). That engine is BLACK inside the frames. Official photos of the engines under construction are few and far between, but there are some good shots taken from above when 71000 was under construction at Crewe, to show the layout of the Caprotti gear. Although the pictures are black & white, the inside frame colour definitely looks to be RED. I would like to know the original colour for sure, before I paint the frames for my 4MT 2-6-4T. There are two full size engines that are still in Barry scrapyard condition (nos.80100 and 80150) and I hope to be able to crawl under them both at some time and see the colour for myself. Unfortunately they're both pretty inaccessible at the moment. As for no.92220, it was last painted externally at Didcot in 1981, but the insides of the frames were not touched. Therefore, the RED colour seen in the photos (which only extends down as far as the frame stretchers) could have been applied at Crewe in 1967. |
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Post by trainman on Dec 11, 2013 21:31:16 GMT
Correct me if I have got it wrong, but I thought the inside frames on all locos were painted red to allow any cracks to show up?
If there were a crack in the frames, the oil and grease would soak into the crack - when wiped down there would be a dark line revealing the crack.
A bit like the dye penetrant used in NDT today.
Paul
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Dec 11, 2013 21:36:45 GMT
yes paul you are right plus oiling up with a flare lamp is easier with frames other than black on the inside! in the mid 1850s/60s onwards there were few colours that remained stable - being made out of pigment and linseed oil. originally the early post office pillar boxes turned 'pink' but then red was perfected. one of the few other early colours that remained stable was dark green. such traditions of loco colours die hard!
if white had been stable and cheap in the 1850s/60s (which it wasnt) then we might all have had a tradition of white inside frames!
cheers,
julian
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Post by vulcanbomber on Dec 30, 2013 21:40:30 GMT
I think its about time we went back to looking at the (slow) progress on my model so I will open this thread back up with a (Late) Merry Christmas and an (early) Happy New Year to everyone! First of all a little catch up with the following picture:  You will have already seen the Rear Brake Shaft, in the above picture is the Front Brake Shaft and its support bushes. I made these a while back but they've been sat under my bench at work half forgotten about. For them that didn't know the 9F has 2 Steam Brake Cylinders, the front set consists of the Leading and Leading Intermediate axles, the Rear Set consists of the Driving, Trailing Intermediate and Trailing axles. And onto today's progress: Today i've been in work with EJParrott (he has been doing exciting things with Jubillee), giving me a rare opportunity to get on to the XYZ Turret mill we have at work, so today I started off making the rear brake shafts support brackets. I've taken a few pics so you can see how I did them. So to start with, find some round bar, stick it in a decent chuck thats nailed down to the table on the Mill, skim the top face and rough out the profile.  Next centre drill all the holes.  Then drill all the holes, the rivet holes are 2.2mm, the 6 bolt holes are 1.8mm to be tapped 8BA and the hole yet to be drilled is about to become a rough 10mm hole ready for the next bit.  So all holes in, we finish the profile.  And using the same 8mm end mill, Interpolate the hole that will locate the shafts support bush.  Check the bush fits.  Ok so we have an issue now, lots of stock on the back of the job so obviously, we part them off.  Next these bits will go onto the Surface Grinder to take the last 8 or so thou off the back face, tap the holes out and deburr. I have also managed to make good progress this afternoon on the rear cylinder brackets, hopefully finishing them tomorrow when i hope to be able to put some pics up of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 21:49:27 GMT
SURFACE GRINDER ??-----------I bet you drive a Ferrari and eat Belgian Chocolates as well ?? ----- ignore me, I'm just envious, that's all !!.........Neat bit of close-call parting there..
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Post by vulcanbomber on Dec 30, 2013 21:57:22 GMT
SURFACE GRINDER ??-----------I bet you drive a Ferrari and eat Belgian Chocolates as well ?? ----- ignore me, I'm just envious, that's all !!.........Neat bit of close-call parting there.. Nope, I drive a clapped out old Land Rover and eat Chocolate spread on Toast......... |
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 30, 2013 23:06:25 GMT
Brilliant, looking at that I could almost smell the suds oil. Paul
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 539
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Post by 44767 on Dec 30, 2013 23:26:56 GMT
There are pleanty of ways to skin a cat! It's realy good to post pictures of how you are doing certain machining operations as someone may suddenly realise how to tackle another job. I make a lot of small parts on the end of bar stock- often holding in a dividing head so that I can attack it from different angles.
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Post by Roger on Dec 31, 2013 8:24:19 GMT
There are pleanty of ways to skin a cat! It's realy good to post pictures of how you are doing certain machining operations as someone may suddenly realise how to tackle another job. I make a lot of small parts on the end of bar stock- often holding in a dividing head so that I can attack it from different angles. Absolutely, and it's a brilliant way to 'hold' something while the bulk of the operations are done before parting it off. I make things like Tee nuts that way and here's a piece of angle made that way too. It's a method that really comes into its own when you're using CNC. Roger Attachments:
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Post by sparticusrye on Dec 31, 2013 19:58:35 GMT
Something I've done with small brass parts is to solder them onto a faced piece of bar and then turn them in the lathe. Never tried it with steel parts. Then when your done you just sweat the part off and soak for a bit in some acid and then rinse. Works great.
James
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Post by Roger on Dec 31, 2013 20:32:02 GMT
Something I've done with small brass parts is to solder them onto a faced piece of bar and then turn them in the lathe. Never tried it with steel parts. Then when your done you just sweat the part off and soak for a bit in some acid and then rinse. Works great. James Another great idea. I used the same technique to hold some shim steel to a piece of brass so I could CNC machine a tiny flexible hinge for a clock. I don't see why that can't be done with bigger steel parts, you just need the right flux. I sweated a 1mm thick Leaded Bronze insert into a pocket in a Stainless Steel housing for an air bearing once. It was very reluctant to wet, but it gave in eventually. We later used a high strength high temperature Loctite product that had the consistency of Araldite to do the same job. I'm sure that could be used in the same way. I'm planning to turn 'Speedy's smokebox door from steel bar, and that's going to need a trick like that to gingerly machine the outside once the inside it complete. |
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Post by RGR 60130 on Dec 31, 2013 22:49:05 GMT
Something I've done with small brass parts is to solder them onto a faced piece of bar and then turn them in the lathe. Never tried it with steel parts. Then when your done you just sweat the part off and soak for a bit in some acid and then rinse. Works great. James Normal superglue often works fine if you just want to do a light facing cut. Reg |
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Post by runner42 on Jan 1, 2014 1:08:27 GMT
Sorry to prolong this side issue but James wrote: Then when your done you just sweat the part off and soak for a bit in some acid and then rinse. Question what acid? Does this remove the residual solder?
Brian
PS I haven't managed the quote method yet.
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
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Post by uuu on Jan 1, 2014 10:13:17 GMT
The acid will not remove excess solder. It's to remove dried-up flux and other gunk. Sulphuric acid is traditional, citric is said to be good (I've not tried it) easier to get hold of, less dangerous in use and easy to dispose of.
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Post by sparticusrye on Jan 1, 2014 16:42:24 GMT
I've used citric acid. Takes longer but it is safer and easier to get. It doesn't remove the solder just the other residues from the flux. If you want to get all the solder off you need to do it mechanically with abrasives or a file. Unless someone else knows of a better way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 18:26:44 GMT
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Post by Roger on Jan 2, 2014 18:43:11 GMT
That's really impressive. I wonder how much air that needs. I know someone who bought a portable system but found that it needed a road drill compressor to keep up with it! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 18:54:52 GMT
We use a similar thing in the Classic Motorcycle and Cars industry for non-destructive cleaning...Great on carbs ( The petrol type that is !!) as the soda just dissolves in hot water !!.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 18:57:17 GMT
I've been looking for a You-Tube link posted by a couple of lads that shows a home-made Baking-soda blaster...Lost it for the moment-----------
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