John Lee
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Post by John Lee on Feb 24, 2007 7:03:00 GMT
The other day I was just wondering what LBSC might have made of the Laser vs Hacksaw/file debate.Any thoughts? Probably on the lines of "saw, file, mill or laser to outline in the usual way. I did this by laser this time by way of a change" ;D Regards, John
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Post by havoc on Feb 25, 2007 11:11:43 GMT
I do know a model builder that refers to a jigsaw as a "hand laser"...
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Post by standardsteam on Feb 27, 2007 12:49:23 GMT
What about tooling? You mean you didn't make your own rotary table and boring head?
Me myself I'd rather get on with the job, I'm still working on an engine my father started over 45 years ago. I haven't make much in the way of tooling but I've learned the value of jigs.
There is no "right" way of Model Engineering, if you want to make your own rivets, screws and patterns for castings whilst measuring in millimetres with frames hacked out of recycled bus frames I'm happy for you, and I hope you get as much pleasure out of the hobby as I do.
I suspect next time round I might buy a boiler rather than making one and I'll just have to live with the fact that I'm less of a craftsman than those who make some of the superb models I see in exhibitions. If I ever get this engine finished and on display I might put on a card "frames hacked out by hand - no laser cutting involved", but then it wasn't an option at the time!
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Post by stantheman on Feb 27, 2007 13:51:05 GMT
I think the most poignant line is the one beginning, 'and I hope you get as much pleasure............. That is what this hobby is all about, long may these thoughts persist. Stan
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John Lee
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Post by John Lee on Feb 27, 2007 19:25:32 GMT
That about sums it up Stan..
I did make some of my own tooling, the GHT Universal Dividing Head is a pleasure to make in itself, and is much better than any device I could buy. Likewise his tapping and staking tool. Both these things you can throw money at, but they cannot be bettered for "our" applications.
They tool 3 months of time, a diversion some may think from their aim of getting their loco/traction/stationary engine working.
But then later somebody asks "why is it so hard to make a fozzburry flop offset lubricating arm". Its not, if you have the right tools, research a bit, plan the job end to end for all the machining operations (the very first lesson an apprentice is taught).
It's a money balance, an example, making injectors; I could, I have the tools bought in (a very accurate little Cowells lathe guaranteed (and it does) to turn to 0.0002, with all the accessories to make watch bits even, all the fiddly stuff), but I don't have the time or patience, I will buy one.
As you say, if you get pleasure from it, don't worry about measuring yourself against somebody else, just get on with it.
Regards,
John
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Post by stantheman on Feb 28, 2007 6:38:28 GMT
John, is that the lubricating arm detailed by one of 'our' great designers from the past for use on the 4-6-2 'Competition' class locomotives. I seem to remember reading about it just after WW2. I am the same about some of the 'new' boiler backhead fittings, they look very professional and do the job, saving me time, making the end product much more attainable. Then other members of our club find great delight in pointing out straight away that they are not 'home made', so what! I am working on a 'Class 5' at present, it will be numbered 'out of sequence' painted Blackberry Black and given a name and shed code that never existed in the production run for BR, but above all else it will be mine! Reminds me of that old Frank Sinatra song. Carry on with the good work John.
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John Lee
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Post by John Lee on Feb 28, 2007 8:06:59 GMT
John, is that the lubricating arm detailed by one of 'our' great designers from the past for use on the 4-6-2 'Competition' class locomotives. I seem to remember reading about it just after WW2. Thats the one Stan, it was first seen in the controversial late 1940's era "Race to the pub". Subsequently banned and subject to random testing for it's presence. John
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Post by Laurie_B on Feb 28, 2007 10:12:30 GMT
I am working on a 'Class 5' at present, it will be numbered 'out of sequence' painted Blackberry Black and given a name and shed code that never existed in the production run for BR, but above all else it will be mine! Reminds me of that old Frank Sinatra song. Stan,this isn't intended as a critism,but I am curious to know why you would want to incorrectly name,number and fit a ficticious shed code plate to your Class 5.(Is that a BR Standard one or LMS?). Incidently,apart from some experimental liveries that appeared c1948,all class 5's were painted black,those emerging from Crewe paint shops would probably have been in 'Blackberry Black'.Only 4 LMS class 5's,and 20 BR standard class 5's carried names. It just seems curious that model engineers will happily spend years constructing a model,built very accurately,nicely painted and polished,based on a prototype,with the mechanicals spot on,but carrying totally ficticious numbers names and liveries. I'm just curious to know why.
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Post by Jo on Feb 28, 2007 10:44:57 GMT
Fear of rivet counters?
Jo
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Myford Matt
Statesman
There are two ways to run a railway, the Great Western way, and the wrong way.
Posts: 621
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Post by Myford Matt on Feb 28, 2007 11:01:16 GMT
'cos the only you can get away with spendng year after after year in t' shed is to say: 'I'll name her after you dear'. How do Jo, Bo and Baz get away with it? MM
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Post by Laurie_B on Feb 28, 2007 11:07:37 GMT
But Jo,wouldn't those rivet counting types have even more of a field day with the wrong liveries,numbers,names etc? Matt-should we expect to see locos emerging soon named...."She Who Must Be Obeyed"?
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Myford Matt
Statesman
There are two ways to run a railway, the Great Western way, and the wrong way.
Posts: 621
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Post by Myford Matt on Feb 28, 2007 11:12:29 GMT
I believe it's already been done, in fact it's arguably the most important model loco ever built!
MM
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Post by Jo on Feb 28, 2007 11:46:20 GMT
MM: I recall spending too much time in the shed was quoted on the divorce petition when I received it all those years ago. Maybe I really ought to get out of the shed a bit more then I might once again have the same problems as the rest of you guys.
Jo
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John Lee
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Post by John Lee on Feb 28, 2007 14:01:45 GMT
But Jo,wouldn't those rivet counting types have even more of a field day with the wrong liveries,numbers,names etc? Not really as you have purposely set out to produce something that is not "correct", or perhaps more accurately what others think of as "correct" Its back to a previous discussion, I am not mystified that such desisions are made; its more to be applauded really that some individuality is shown rather than following the herd or slavishly copying a prototype don't you think?? You are your own CME after all. John
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Post by stantheman on Feb 28, 2007 16:36:23 GMT
Well John, you seem to be following the same line of thought that I have. Rivet counters!! more of them than actual builders I think. As for colours, numbers, codes etc, my choice. Just a thought, how many times could you stand alongside a railway track back in the 'good old days' and see more than one locomotive of the same type carrying the same name and all else. 'My' particular locomotive has not been constructed at Crewe, it is not neccessarily going to be rivet, mechanics, detail perfect yet hopefully it will give me and my own followers some satisfaction. Sorry if I have offended any of the contributors to this thread, such as Jo, Laurie B and anyone else. I realise that it was not criticism Laurie, I expect when the big day arrives I shall totally ignore all comments around me and just bask in my own inner pride. Oh, one other thing, I am naming it after the chap in Ontario (a long time friend of mine) who did actually start to build it before passing away last year, I have also given him a Knighthood to really give his name some clout. Stan.
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John Lee
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Posts: 375
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Post by John Lee on Feb 28, 2007 17:04:09 GMT
Stan,
Some years ago I met the late Jim Ewins. I would not wish to offend anybody (there is at least one relative on here) but I did not care for him personally, being, solely IMHO, an abrasive and combative personality if his ideas did not agree with yours.
However, he was an independant thinker. He built a superb 9F which he named "Lode Star", numbered out of sequence also because he made many scientifically considered changes to suit a build in model scale in an attempt to increase efficiency and useability. A physics teacher incidentally.
It was beautifully built and painted. A true piece of craftsmanship. But the judges at the exhibitions or the many armchair engineers would say "Ahh your end knob widget is not quite correctly placed and is one shade the wrong colour"
Now.. who is to be more admired?... somebody who does this and promotes and indeed executes original ideas (shades of Isambard Kingdom Brunel) or somebody who wants to shell out on lost wax castings and get the rivet in the exact place?? And indeed follows many others who are building the exact same thing.
Finish it off for your friend Stan, and thrash it around the track as he would have hoped.
Regards,
John
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Post by Laurie_B on Feb 28, 2007 17:06:08 GMT
But Jo,wouldn't those rivet counting types have even more of a field day with the wrong liveries,numbers,names etc? Not really as you have purposely set out to produce something that is not "correct", or perhaps more accurately what others think of as "correct" Its back to a previous discussion, I am not mystified that such desisions are made; its more to be applauded really that some individuality is shown rather than following the herd or slavishly copying a prototype don't you think?? You are your own CME after all. John The best way of dealing with rivet counters is to ask them what they are building! But surely it's not about individuality (I'm all for that as a rule),but if you're going to the trouble of building a model of,say a LMS 'Black 5',rather than a freelance design,I can't see why there should be a problem with just sticking the correct number on the model as was carried by the full sized loco?After all it's not that difficult to find out what the loco names and numbers were allocated to any particular class.I'm just curious about doing something 'different' just (apparently) for the sake of it?
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Post by stantheman on Feb 28, 2007 17:28:12 GMT
Thanks once again John. Perhaps, when we get our insignia we shall recognise each other whenever we are standing admiring somebody elses model thinking 'what if?' I certainly will continue in my own demonstrative way. Stan.
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John Lee
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Post by John Lee on Feb 28, 2007 17:34:49 GMT
Discussed above I think Laurence,
But individuality is about doing something for the sake of it surely, because that is what you want to do regardless of others peoples opinions. Or in this case for personal satisfaction and for respect for a friend.
However much the hands on twiddle the knobs engineering skill, individual thought, which to quote a horrible american phrase "thinking outside the box", has always advanced scientific and plain hands on engineering skills.
If the result is a loco (or whatever) that runs sucessfully, gives the builder pleasure, gives onlookers an education in older devices which are "alive" in this electrified age, then what is the harm??
Does it actually do what it is supposed to do in this case? Yes it goes around a track and has given the builder much satisfaction. No more comment from rivet counters or armchair builders can equal that methinks..
Regards,
John
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Lurkio
Seasoned Member
Posts: 101
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Post by Lurkio on Feb 28, 2007 18:10:03 GMT
Hi folks,
Be honest, you have to admire the abilities of someone who can actually build a model with every detail spot on - all rivets and other small details in the correct place. Models too good to run really, I should think! But the rivet counters who look down their noses at 'less perfect' creations are to be pitied rather than despised. Imagine fretting each day about every minute detail that isn't quite right....not just in ME but in everything probably. I think most engineers strive for perfection generally, it's part of the training. But compromises have to be made in order to keep sane.
Lurkio.
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