weary
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 290
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Post by weary on Oct 10, 2019 9:51:26 GMT
David,
Looking at the first photo' of these 'wings' that you posted and the pic' taken from above in your flikr album the wear marks on both wings appear very similar. If this is the case are the bearer pads attached to the mainframes set correctly?
Regards, Phil
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Oct 10, 2019 12:58:53 GMT
Phil I think so, the supports look and measure out at 90 degrees. Anyway spent a few hours heating up my vice and have chickened out with this casting. Burnt just about everything at hand including my fingers, the vice, my bench, this casting will take a lot of heat to attempt to bend it. So, have a new one coming from Blackgates!!! D
PS off to take some photos of, dare I say, another project that I may tell you about but first I have to identify some castings and that requires some help from a foreign country!!! say no more.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 10, 2019 13:48:42 GMT
For the sake of 12 quid or so, thats probably the best option, unless you find that the original pattern maker messed up, and the castings come looking like yours from new!
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 10, 2019 23:00:12 GMT
Hello David,
Your posted pic of the Jackson drawings for the main bogie casting shows slanted 'wings', so why try to straighten them/make them horizontal? They also appear to be curved on the side elevation on the Jackson drawings you posted.
The Jackson GWR King ones are flat, but the GWR King doesn't have a De Glehn front bogie!
Cheers, Julian
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 11, 2019 8:40:09 GMT
Julian,
I don't think he's trying to make them horizontal - he's trying to make them both the same angle (10 degrees, I think it was).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 9:31:17 GMT
Hi David looking at your photo with the straight edge I'm assuming it's the right-hand side that is low? if so you could try what I have drawn, please forgive the 3 year old drawing attempt, I say 3 as I know my 4 year old grandsons could do much better.. . The drawing shows the opposite side as that's what is shown in the one you posted so just reverse the idea if the other side. If me, I would cut a diagonal line across where the wing meets the bogie, take it off completely, something like a 45-degree cut would be my choice. You could then file down (or machine) the edge that gives you the correct angle, ie, if the wing needs to go up, remove only from the top and vice a Versa if the opposite. You need to keep one edge as cut, if that makes sense so that it meets where it began (allowing for the metal removed during the cut, of course). The grey bar that I have drawn along with the yellow pivot points and the black slot hopefully are self-explanatory. Basically the yellow dots are where I would drill/tap 4 holes, 2 per end of the bogie to hold ta supporting brace (grey bar) for when silver soldering back together. This when tight would hold the two parts in line and at the correct angle, you could also allow for the metal lost in the cut. I think that i would set the casting up on the mill and use a slitting saw, although a hacksaw could do the same if careful to keep the cut straight? just an idea sir... Pete
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Oct 11, 2019 9:43:52 GMT
Steve, quite right! The good one, follows the drawing, is at 10 degrees, the wrong one is 4 degrees. The wings are too chunky to be bent crooked (not straight) so I am waiting here like a love sick soppy thing waiting for the postman to bring me my casting!!!!!
Worth noting that the works drawing of the Princess Royal bogie shows flat wings, maybe Jackson knew better!!!
And Julian, don't worry about your bogie, I was merely quoting from a letter written by Tom Coleman to an old friend where he talks about Stanier and Riddles debating the size of the driving wheels, do they follow GW Kings at 6'-6" or go to 6'-9". Stanier followed GW practice on the PRs. Coleman added "we did not make this mistake on the Coronations which benefitted greatly by having larger wheels." He mentions as well, "The bogie and pony truck adopted principles used by the GW following trials with the DeGlehn, . . .Atlantic . . ."
Cheers David
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Midland on Oct 11, 2019 10:15:23 GMT
Hi Pete Thanks very much for that, I understand what you are saying and would gladly follow your recipe were it not that I have in my hand a casting delivered from heaven with the two wings pointing up equally! I think Blackgates are pretty good to produce a casting out of thin air for a drawing from 1934 and within 24 hours, I only called them yesterday lunchtime!
BUT you do raise an interesting (philosophical?) question. Do we buy in or fabricate? We had to make these (economic) decisions all the time when manufacturing freight cars but now we are hobbyists. When I started about 25 years ago, I used to make my own nuts and bolts because that is what model engineers seemed to do. Perhaps this was a perception driven by the LBSC mentality or the generally impoverished state of MEs or some sort of fetish to be true to making your own. Now days we will not hesitate to buy off the shelf. Perhaps we are richer but in my case I am trying to plan ahead. How many years will I live beyond my 78? How many 'projects' do I have time to complete? After all the list is Aspinal, Jinty, Crab and rebuild a 3 1/2" Hudson, a rake of coaches and I have to nurture my Princess of Wales, 990 and whatever else sneaks into the workshop, and there is bound to be something else, cutting the grass for example! Also, I have the kids' inheritance to spend! And just to confuse the issue, I made (fabricated) a new water gauge for the Princess Royal as I needed more visible length for the glass and the old ones were better off on a 7 1/4" loco. But then I bought two for the 990 as they appeared to be more standard. It is merely a matter of time available for me anyway. So Pete, if I could not get the casting, I would be bothering you about your eloquent remedy but as I have the casting it is off to the milling machine! But an interesting question to occupy our minds, someone might even start a new thread to discuss. Cheers David
PS Pete, you have the same dilemma, will 4472 be ready for the 100th year birthday party, hope so!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 12:14:40 GMT
Hi Pete Thanks very much for that, I understand what you are saying and would gladly follow your recipe were it not that I have in my hand a casting delivered from heaven with the two wings pointing up equally! I think Blackgates are pretty good to produce a casting out of thin air for a drawing from 1934 and within 24 hours, I only called them yesterday lunchtime! BUT you do raise an interesting (philosophical?) question. Do we buy in or fabricate? We had to make these (economic) decisions all the time when manufacturing freight cars but now we are hobbyists. When I started about 25 years ago, I used to make my own nuts and bolts because that is what model engineers seemed to do. Perhaps this was a perception driven by the LBSC mentality or the generally impoverished state of MEs or some sort of fetish to be true to making your own. Now days we will not hesitate to buy off the shelf. Perhaps we are richer but in my case I am trying to plan ahead. How many years will I live beyond my 78? How many 'projects' do I have time to complete? After all the list is Aspinal, Jinty, Crab and rebuild a 3 1/2" Hudson, a rake of coaches and I have to nurture my Princess of Wales, 990 and whatever else sneaks into the workshop, and there is bound to be something else, cutting the grass for example! Also, I have the kids' inheritance to spend! And just to confuse the issue, I made (fabricated) a new water gauge for the Princess Royal as I needed more visible length for the glass and the old ones were better off on a 7 1/4" loco. But then I bought two for the 990 as they appeared to be more standard. It is merely a matter of time available for me anyway. So Pete, if I could not get the casting, I would be bothering you about your eloquent remedy but as I have the casting it is off to the milling machine! But an interesting question to occupy our minds, someone might even start a new thread to discuss. Cheers David PS Pete, you have the same dilemma, will 4472 be ready for the 100th year birthday party, hope so! Haha... you've been reading my mind re the '100th anniversary' in fact I'm looking into whether I can arrange something with the NRM and FS when she's there, I don't know anyone concerned but hopefully, others who I do know may have contacts. How close I'll be to finished is an unknown ( I have an awful lot of work/research to do on the backhead fittings) but I am trying to step up a gear, it was only a couple of weeks ago that it dawned on me that FS was 100 in a few years time. I hate making my own bolts but then I hate all repetitive work, as it happens I have some bolts and castellated nuts to do very soon, oh the joy...I have no problem with using off the shelf items where I can, as you say, our time on this world is limited, in fact, I think Model Engineering is probably the worse hobby to have in this respect, we keep plodding along though, age is not really a decider on how long we have to play in this world. Cheers Pete
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Oct 11, 2019 14:00:51 GMT
Pete Try Bob Gwynne in the research engine section or curators dept. He is a good chap and might like the idea. I think he might be willing with access or you can use the photo I sent you a while back. David
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Oct 11, 2019 15:23:59 GMT
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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 12, 2019 2:44:20 GMT
Is it a trick of the light, but the left hand wing looks much flatter than the right hand wing!
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Oct 12, 2019 8:10:52 GMT
Is it a trick of the light, but the left hand wing looks much flatter than the right hand wing! They appear the same. If a bit out, I will have to mill the faces gently and can compensate! D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Oct 15, 2019 8:10:26 GMT
It survived. Milling is certainly my achilles heel in this hobby! Last cut done. IMG_1833 by David Goyder, on Flickr D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Midland on Oct 16, 2019 20:25:42 GMT
Bogie on and looking good. Tried a steam test today and stopped over the injector not working properly. I have lent my DAG Brown book so cannot look this up but does anyone know what is the fault when the injector shoots water out of the overflow and appears not to pick up? I undid the pipe to the top feed clack and the water was shooting out of it so it is doing some work. Now, I need to confirm the lift on the ball in the clack but why does water come out of both ends so as to speak?? Yes well soaked in citric.
Also put her on blocks and the wheels turn beautifully but the axle pump was not working properly as the hose was loose on the connecting pipe and it was [pumping air half the time. Didn't see that at first. So two small jobs and then maybe! Cheers David
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Post by Roger on Oct 16, 2019 21:33:12 GMT
Hi David, That can be that the Steam pressure is too low or the water isn't being regulated enough. Most injectors have and annular gap that's supposed to regulate how much water can drawn from the supply. If too much water is allowed to enter the injector, it's more than it can deliver so it backs up and prevents it from picking up. If you turn on the water first then the steam, you can slowly turn down the water supply to the point where that does the regulation for the injector and it ought to pick up. It sounds like the annular gap is a shade too large and the steam cone needs to be moved further in. Either that or you do what most people seem to do, and that's live with it!
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Midland on Nov 15, 2019 21:21:42 GMT
My rogue injector is finaly off to my esteemed injector consultant and I await a full and detailed report. If he can fix it and only he can, we might have a pacific in ticket! Wowee! D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Apr 12, 2020 21:14:31 GMT
Ashamed that it is almost five months since I last had the Princess Royal upper most in my mind. Anyway, she is on a very clean (no a bit cleaner bench), at least much of the crap is off and the injector has come back from my estemed injector consultant and is now fitted. Not able to test it yet as this is a long loco and my outside facilities are short. Also lifting help is 2m away at least. So now getting on with the last job and that is to fit a proper looking cab. Tried a test fit this afternoon and I think it is drooping back a little so I may have to make a couple of new bits. The drawings are close to useless and I have been reprinting the ones from the Swann series on her to try to get the correct sizes etc. Will post a pic of her soon for your comment. Anyway she is alive and well. Now to read the painting book by CV! Cheers David
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Apr 13, 2020 18:56:38 GMT
The cab droops, it is lower at the back than the front and looks horrible.The first picture does not show it too much but the next one does.The squares are on their respective platforms and one can see the gap. IMG_2251 by David Goyder, on Flickr IMG_2255 by David Goyder, on Flickr IMG_2256 by David Goyder, on Flickr On this one I shoved something under the back end and got the front parellel to the square. So it is new templates and new sides. Both sides as bad as each other. Cheers David
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barlowworks
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Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
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Post by barlowworks on Apr 13, 2020 19:20:40 GMT
Would it be possible to ease the rear platform up to meet the side rather than make new sides.
Mike
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