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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 19:30:21 GMT
Doug I dont like the Spamcan's at all, for me put Sir Keith Park next to Squadron or Manston and there is no contest Visually maybe but operationally give me 21C123 over 34059 any day of the week!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 19:31:20 GMT
Hmm dunno how I managed to get my comment in the quote too....
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
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Post by uuu on Aug 8, 2014 19:33:03 GMT
Hmm dunno how I managed to get my comment easily done Wilf in the quote too....
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 19:58:14 GMT
Marvilous my post just disappeared gggrrrrrr
i said; I had to look that up and I wish I hadn't that is one ugly duckling topped of with the worst set of clothes since rupert the bear put his trousers on, least there was a photo of Dartmoor to soothe my eyes
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 20:29:28 GMT
Ooooh! That's fighting talk! :0
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wiltsrob
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 279
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Post by wiltsrob on Aug 8, 2014 21:30:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 22:30:53 GMT
Thanks John regarding the castings I was thinking the same thing, I have a Black five 2.5" set of drawings and always thought there was no way it could be built as castings are just not available but with my CNC I can now see in the correct scale there would never be a need to buy castings again the five would be very easy to build. I really do fancy a bullied though as they are so rare, you have done some cracking work on that model how did you go about it? Did you buy the Ariel drawings and just scale them down? are there any considerations other than space on a 2.5" loco looking at the plans I have the blackhead is quite simple. regards, DougDoug Hi Doug, The Black Five castings are available from the 2½" Gauge Association as are many other 2½" gauge castings. Tim Smith at the club is just finishing one. I had a set of Boxpok wheels until recently but let someone have them! Not sure if we still sell them. I just scaled down the Ariel drawings from the articles in Model Engineer but it wasn't too bad a job as everything is basically half size for 2½". Scaling to 3½" will be a bit more work. You will find 2½" gauge very fiddly compared to the larger scales. There's a lot to get between the frames and things can get very tight for space. The advantages are you can carry them around easily and they are much cheaper to build! Masahiraoka (Martyn) on here is building a 3½" gauge rebuilt West Country class and he's got a copy of my 3D drawings which he is busy scaling up to 3½". The West Country is similar to the Merchant Navy. In fact, the motion brackets etc. that Keith Wilson drew for Ariel are actually West Country rather than Merchant Navy. John
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Aug 8, 2014 22:41:01 GMT
one interesting piece of information was very kindly provided to me by pault re the testing of the unrebuilt Merchant Navy's at Rugby. as well as testing locos with thermic syphons they also tested one without thermic syphons fitted and no difference could be detected between the steaming of the 2 boiler types. some of the preserved railways could have saved a lot of expense and complications by plating over the thermic syphons on their Bulleid pacific boilers!
thank you Will for the excellent link re miniature Bullied locos built. some of the boiler fittings on some of the examples are quite superb and have spurred me on to try and emulate same.
cheers, julian
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Post by Doug on Aug 9, 2014 5:11:20 GMT
Thanks John regarding the castings I was thinking the same thing, I have a Black five 2.5" set of drawings and always thought there was no way it could be built as castings are just not available but with my CNC I can now see in the correct scale there would never be a need to buy castings again the five would be very easy to build. I really do fancy a bullied though as they are so rare, you have done some cracking work on that model how did you go about it? Did you buy the Ariel drawings and just scale them down? are there any considerations other than space on a 2.5" loco looking at the plans I have the blackhead is quite simple. regards, DougDoug Hi Doug, The Black Five castings are available from the 2½" Gauge Association as are many other 2½" gauge castings. Tim Smith at the club is just finishing one. I had a set of Boxpok wheels until recently but let someone have them! Not sure if we still sell them. I just scaled down the Ariel drawings from the articles in Model Engineer but it wasn't too bad a job as everything is basically half size for 2½". Scaling to 3½" will be a bit more work. You will find 2½" gauge very fiddly compared to the larger scales. There's a lot to get between the frames and things can get very tight for space. The advantages are you can carry them around easily and they are much cheaper to build! Masahiraoka (Martyn) on here is building a 3½" gauge rebuilt West Country class and he's got a copy of my 3D drawings which he is busy scaling up to 3½". The West Country is similar to the Merchant Navy. In fact, the motion brackets etc. that Keith Wilson drew for Ariel are actually West Country rather than Merchant Navy. John Thanks again john, i think that's a plan then I will get the ME vols154-159 and scale them to half size it's a good job I like fiddly and the size will suit both my pocket and my machines very well I am not too worried about the wheels I will probably just cnc them out of cast iron bar and put steel tyres on (thanks Roger for that one) what were the alterations to the valves you had to do where they very extensive? Oh and the other good point is I can still run it at whitwick, happy days Doug
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 8:38:36 GMT
Julian, I believe there is too much red tape to plate over the syphons, and enough redesigning of the boiler staying in those areas to warrant all manner of burocracy. At the end of the day the Bulleid boiler was never designed to be thermally cycled every day or two, it was supposed to be hot for 2 weeks at a time between washouts, it's no wonder they are less than reliable
Cheers Ben
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 12:49:21 GMT
Thanks again john, i think that's a plan then I will get the ME vols154-159 and scale them to half size it's a good job I like fiddly and the size will suit both my pocket and my machines very well I am not too worried about the wheels I will probably just cnc them out of cast iron bar and put steel tyres on (thanks Roger for that one) what were the alterations to the valves you had to do where they very extensive? Oh and the other good point is I can still run it at whitwick, happy days Doug Doug, I've got copies of all the relevant articles. PM me with your email address and I'll send them to you. Got loads of other info as well that might be useful. I have got some 2D CAD drawings of the frames etc. that would save you some work. I haven't got around to producing 2D drawings from the 3D model yet. If you are thinking of fitting the wheels with steel tyres why not just machine them from steel in the first place? Would save some work. I've 'made' the wheels on the model in two parts - the main wheel which has the Boxpok recesses in it and a thin cover plate that simulates the webs on the front of the recesses: I would have probably got the front plates laser cut but an easy job for cnc? John
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Post by Doug on Aug 9, 2014 13:15:43 GMT
Well you would never guess who just had a cutting laser delivered to work recently Time to go speak to the research dept. and ask if they need to cut some samples (frame sized samples )
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Post by masahiraoka on Aug 10, 2014 11:15:13 GMT
Doug yes as Baggo (John) has indicated i've begun the long process to complete a very early stage chassis of a rebuilt West Country. John generously given me a copy of his 3D CAD model of his 2 1/2" Merchant Navy which i'm busy converting to 3 1/2" West Country.
this initially involves scaling all his parts up by the ratio of the gauges which is not as easy as it sounds, then creating the parts that are specific to the West Country including for example the outside motion brackets and finally designing the necessary parts to complete the whole design ie those which John had not got around to designing. I believe the whole process will take till the end of the year at least.
Then comes the issue of making the most complex parts and i thought i would try 3D printing the fabricated brackets - no idea yet how expensive this will be or the quality / accuracy of the resultant parts.
regards Martyn
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Post by vulcanbomber on Aug 10, 2014 12:22:38 GMT
Hi Doug, The Black Five castings are available from the 2½" Gauge Association as are many other 2½" gauge castings. Tim Smith at the club is just finishing one. I had a set of Boxpok wheels until recently but let someone have them! Not sure if we still sell them. I just scaled down the Ariel drawings from the articles in Model Engineer but it wasn't too bad a job as everything is basically half size for 2½". Scaling to 3½" will be a bit more work. You will find 2½" gauge very fiddly compared to the larger scales. There's a lot to get between the frames and things can get very tight for space. The advantages are you can carry them around easily and they are much cheaper to build! Masahiraoka (Martyn) on here is building a 3½" gauge rebuilt West Country class and he's got a copy of my 3D drawings which he is busy scaling up to 3½". The West Country is similar to the Merchant Navy. In fact, the motion brackets etc. that Keith Wilson drew for Ariel are actually West Country rather than Merchant Navy. John Thanks again john, i think that's a plan then I will get the ME vols154-159 and scale them to half size it's a good job I like fiddly and the size will suit both my pocket and my machines very well I am not too worried about the wheels I will probably just cnc them out of cast iron bar and put steel tyres on (thanks Roger for that one) what were the alterations to the valves you had to do where they very extensive? Oh and the other good point is I can still run it at whitwick, happy days Doug I'd just mill the out of solid steel like the 9F's will be.
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Post by Doug on Aug 10, 2014 16:23:15 GMT
Having looked at the size in 2.5" then it's very doable to just mill it from steel. thanks to John and his excellent work so far I have a project to follow my speedy, a fine scale 2.5" bullied rebuilt merchant navy. having been influenced quite heavily by Rodgers build of his 1500 class (not going to call it a speedy cos it's way better) I really fancied doing a full on proper engine that's a scale loco, not a redesigned one that's only a nod to the original. having had a good look at the Ariel plans even 3.5" would be a tough job I think 2.5" is going to be perfect. a real challenge as well, the detail is awesome
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Post by Doug on Aug 10, 2014 19:29:57 GMT
Doug yes as Baggo (John) has indicated i've begun the long process to complete a very early stage chassis of a rebuilt West Country. John generously given me a copy of his 3D CAD model of his 2 1/2" Merchant Navy which i'm busy converting to 3 1/2" West Country. this initially involves scaling all his parts up by the ratio of the gauges which is not as easy as it sounds, then creating the parts that are specific to the West Country including for example the outside motion brackets and finally designing the necessary parts to complete the whole design ie those which John had not got around to designing. I believe the whole process will take till the end of the year at least. Then comes the issue of making the most complex parts and i thought i would try 3D printing the fabricated brackets - no idea yet how expensive this will be or the quality / accuracy of the resultant parts. regards Martyn That sounds like a good idea Martyn 3d printing would give some fantastic opatunity to add authentic working detail the company I have found so far "Shapeways", say there 3D printing is to around 0.1mm accuracy which should be enough for most bits I would like to make, like the reverser gearbox etc. I really fancy making the metalwork in sheet like the original looking at The bullied web site they have done very fine work with sheet and silver solder. RollsRoyce make some aero engine parts with 3D printing they are so good you can't tell they are not lost wax cast. It's going to be a big part of our hobby in the future. all the best Doug.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Aug 10, 2014 21:15:25 GMT
i am rather hoping for a resurgence in 2.5"g. john has done a lot to promote same, and many clubs (including my own) dont use the raised track for fare paying punters anymore and instead rely on the 7.25/5"g ground level track. there has always been a fascination in making things in miniature, and in this respect 2.5"g has tremendous appeal. unfortunately i was instrumental in not including 2.5"g in the first raised club track i had a hand in rebuilding in the mid 1990s, though in my defence no 2.5"g loco had used the old 2.5"g rails for very many years prior to the rebuilding. part of the old track is in my garden and the 2.5"g rail is higher by about 1/8" as was so little used. i think the nearest club track to me with 2.5"g is cheltenham. cheers, julian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 23:23:06 GMT
though in my defence no 2.5"g loco had used the old 2.5"g rails for very many years prior to the rebuilding. part of the old track is in my garden and the 2.5"g rail is higher by about 1/8" as was so little used. I think that's the problem Julian, most 2½" gauge tracks only seem to get used if we hold a rally at the particular club. We're fortunate at Whitwick in that we have a good contingent of members who are into 2½" gauge so our rails get used quite a lot. One of our members has just completed a 2½" Midland Compound that he designed from scratch and on Thursday he brought it down for a run. He did 30 laps of the track (aprox 7 miles!) with no problems at all. A real credit to him and a shning example of what 2½" locos can do. John
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 23:46:34 GMT
one interesting piece of information was very kindly provided to me by pault re the testing of the unrebuilt Merchant Navy's at Rugby. as well as testing locos with thermic syphons they also tested one without thermic syphons fitted and no difference could be detected between the steaming of the 2 boiler types. some of the preserved railways could have saved a lot of expense and complications by plating over the thermic syphons on their Bulleid pacific boilers! thank you Will for the excellent link re miniature Bullied locos built. some of the boiler fittings on some of the examples are quite superb and have spurred me on to try and emulate same. cheers, julian -----------------------Just for interest sake only, The Great Bear ( Launched BEFORE the TITANIC )had a form of thermic syphon by way of Vertical "Water Tubes" fitted in the firebox.........After a while it was decided that their small contribution wasn't worth the extra coat and Tech. Problems encountered and they were remove during a scheduled service....All this BEFORE the First World War as well....
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