jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Sept 26, 2014 22:14:07 GMT
hi marc, contrary to what pete (smallbrother) and what lots of traction engine loco users suggest, never use housecoal on a steam locomotive. it tars up the tubes (very bad) and has a low calorific value. i had a blazing row with someone who will remain nameless when he bought a load of housecoal for us to operate with commercially for a 7.25"g loco. under no circumstances would i permit it's use! cheers, julian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 1:25:49 GMT
PETE ( old friend, mate , pal, buddy and chum--- ), it's not what you do ( ie "all coal burns" )........it's the way that you do it ( ie different coals burn in different ways..eg}--Lady Windsor Colliery Welsh Steam that burns HOT, with almost no clinker and a light grey ash... versus Polish surface-mined Brown CRUD that's hard-put to shame a NAFFI candle for heat, that clinkers like it's going out of fashion and seems to produce more in weight of ash than it was as coal originally!!.........That's just my personal, "hands-on" memories when the SVR management back in the day, decided on a bit of "Economy"--------The amount of ash wagons used to dispose of the stuff almost doubled, and the shed lads were no best pleased at all, as you may imagine............................................ OK, I'm off my (wooden---combustible) soap box now...MARC's question was for a test run only and so a bit of a mix won't do any harm in this instance, will it ??......'course not..But Julian does have a good point about the tar content ( sounds just like the anti-cigarette campaign now !!)...This does need to be kept to a minimum....
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Sept 27, 2014 2:40:30 GMT
hi alan, im so pleased you mentioned Lady Windsor Colliery. half my coal shed is full of Lady Windsor coal. it was the preferred coal for the Talyllyn, Ffestiniog, and Snowdon Mountain Railway. after a bit of heavy rain the tips at Ynysybwll (Lady Windsor) produce enough small coal to fill 3 or 4 bags of coal during a 30 min dog walking session whilst the doggie is off the lead chasing rabbits. the light steam coal cascades down the sides of the old tips and is easily collected. now there's my 'gold mine' revealed! cheers, julian
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monkeyhero97
Part of the e-furniture
Got a 7 1/4" Stafford and 2 1/2" WD 2-10-0, building Ayesha and thinking about Q1.
Posts: 423
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Post by monkeyhero97 on Sept 27, 2014 7:45:37 GMT
Another question I have is on the steam oil topic and simplex topic. My simplex's builder( a very reputable man) took the superheater off of my simplex, as he said it ran a lot better without it. While watching a video yesterday on model engineering, it said steam oil is designed for superheated steam. Can I still use normal steam oil from the club with my engine? And what are the consequences of using non-super heated as apposed to super heated steam? ¨ Marc Re the coal, thank you for your responses. Hopefully I will have enough steam coal for my test. If I see that I do not, I think I might throw in a few pieces of housecoal here and there, but of course this is only for my test. Marc
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Sept 27, 2014 9:20:56 GMT
Guys, the cheap housecoal is for a quick steam-up, I did not say to use it otherwise. I would imagine throughout the world engines ran on what I would regard as S-H-I-T for 150 years, its still just a source of heat.
I still cannot see why anyone wants less energy from their coal, for the same amount of shovelling, but if that suits then go for it. Anthracite for me, wish I knew of a tip to collect the stuff for free like Julian.
With regards steam oil I use the same stuff for superheaters and without superheaters, in fact the only categorized commercial stuff I've seen is graded on working pressure (Steam Fittings) or gauge (Polly Model Engineering). If the other 5" locos are using it you will be fine.
What the GWR used or existing narrow-gauge lines was/is up to them. All I am saying is £7 a 25kg bag anthracite beans or small nuts has worked superbly for 6 years on my variety of 5" and 7.25" locos.
Whilst i am typing this, I recall that when I joined the Coal Board in 1977 the coal in the Hirwaun/Aberdare area was not sold as anthracite but by the time I left in 1992 it was. Did that change of name render it less suitable for steam locos? I don't think so.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 10:04:41 GMT
One of our late club members (not my current club I hasten to add but one I was a member of when I first moved to Telford) was an employee at the Rolls Royce Factory, Shrewsbury, man and boy and was always spoke of in hushed, revered tones by the hoi polloi as}--- "He must be CORRECT because he works at "Rolls"!!.........This was the same man who advised a builder of 3.5"g Lickham Hall to use 0.750" diam. GROUND bar as axle for the brand new 3/4" reamered hole in the locos' iron axleboxes..............then couldn't understand why they wouldn't fit !!!!........My point being you can't judge a book by looking at its' cover !!.......Did your "Reputable" friend do some tests before and after removal of the Superheater and produce clear, unequivocal results proving the claim, ------ or, more likely, it's just a throw-away comment to justify his doing it in the first place !!..........The superheater as originally designed in Simplex's boiler is a 1-off, single pass unit that at best is a steam "dryer"...I believe there is also a version that extends the return bend out to the inside face of the firebox inner doorplate ( ok lads, I'm converted to the temrinology now,--chuckle !!)...thus making it a Radiant type...........What you now have is a loco that has taken a step backwards to become a "Saturated" or "wet" Steam loco, of the type used in early Victorian times before the adaptation of superheating....................OK, History lesson over and let's address your question ie}--- What oil to use ??.....Answer is}--it must still be a "Steam" oil but now can be of the minimum value available as Superheating is not fitted.........................................Personally I'd get a non-radiant type fitted ASAP, but that's just me............................PS}--- I'm guessing here now but you might have to increase the lubricator output a wee bit as "wet" steam might have a tendency to wash the cylinder walls of oil slightly-----as I say that's just a guess as I don't drive a loco that hasn't got superheating. ( Even my MAMOD has a rudimentary superheater !!)..................
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 10:10:17 GMT
Hi PETE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(are we still friends)?LOL..........Yes, I think Marc's "quick steam up" or ""Steam Test" ( by which I took that to mean a Stationary steam raising and safety valve test ) got lost along the way a wee bit...
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Post by Rob on Sept 27, 2014 10:25:56 GMT
hi alan, im so pleased you mentioned Lady Windsor Colliery. half my coal shed is full of Lady Windsor coal. it was the preferred coal for the Talyllyn, Ffestiniog, and Snowdon Mountain Railway. after a bit of heavy rain the tips at Ynysybwll (Lady Windsor) produce enough small coal to fill 3 or 4 bags of coal during a 30 min dog walking session whilst the doggie is off the lead chasing rabbits. the light steam coal cascades down the sides of the old tips and is easily collected. now there's my 'gold mine' revealed! cheers, julian What a cracking idea. I'd have never thought there would be anything useful left in all the slag tips around and about down here. I wonder if any of the other colliery tips produce
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 11:04:38 GMT
OH DEAR !! Julian----------- now we're going to have fleets of coaches from all points of the compass converging on rural South Wales full of desperate Model Engineers ( With shovels ) searching for the Holy Grail of steam coal supply.........They'll be FRAKING in the Valleys before long, mark my words !!...... What HAVE you started ??
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Sept 27, 2014 11:39:15 GMT
most of the tips have been totally removed/erased from the landscape in south wales, but the old tips at Lady Windsor are easily accessible and havent been removed - yet.
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Post by Rob on Sept 27, 2014 16:15:08 GMT
I think a lot of sites have had a visit from the health and safety fairy. Quite a lot of things that were about when I was younger have recently been 'made safe'. Unfortunately, it seems people can't be trusted with common sense any more.
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Post by andyhigham on Sept 27, 2014 16:25:21 GMT
The biggest spoil tip (or as we call them round here slag heap) in Britain, Cutacre at Little Hulton has been recently excavated. They reckoned over a million tonnes of usable coal was retrieved
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Post by Roger on Sept 27, 2014 16:43:27 GMT
Good grief! I predict that one day they'll mine our old rubbish dumps to retrieve the valuable plastics and metals that are their in their millions of tons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 17:01:24 GMT
Good grief! I predict that one day they'll mine our old rubbish dumps to retrieve the valuable plastics and metals that are their in their millions of tons. ----------------------------------- they already do that in China....'Twas on the telly recently----------all the first and second generation mobiles, PC's, etc being stripped for their Gold, Silver, Mercury etc.............Huge dump sites with young kids crawling all over them---------------- horrendous !!............. www.theguardian.com/environment/chinas-choice+pollution ---------------
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Sept 27, 2014 18:03:20 GMT
Hi PETE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(are we still friends)?LOL..........Yes, I think Marc's "quick steam up" or ""Steam Test" ( by which I took that to mean a Stationary steam raising and safety valve test ) got lost along the way a wee bit... Still friends for sure! We don't have to agree all the time, its good to discuss stuff and air views. In fact, I can't speak highly enough of the ME community. Unlike my rugby days, no-one has punched my nose or kicked my ribs, not yet anyway!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 18:28:07 GMT
Ooo-er !! Does "young" Mr Parrot know of these goings-on in his club ??-------------
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Sept 27, 2014 18:45:10 GMT
Nah, that's posh boys' Rugby in England. They didn't do things like that, not in my day anyway, unless they were from Gloucester way!
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monkeyhero97
Part of the e-furniture
Got a 7 1/4" Stafford and 2 1/2" WD 2-10-0, building Ayesha and thinking about Q1.
Posts: 423
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Post by monkeyhero97 on Sept 28, 2014 18:59:14 GMT
I've just managed to find a merchant in Geneva who can supply 10kg bags of Anthracite Im all set, I just need steam oil now Marc
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Sept 29, 2014 0:19:17 GMT
so far as the south wales coal tips are concerned there are no H & S issues as suggested by robp since the merthyr vale (aberfan) horrific and tragic slip. most have now been removed as providing a cheap valuable source of small coal for the power station at east aberthaw, apart from the odd landscaping project such as at bargoed. the coal tip nearest to me (1.5m away) at wyllie is useless for my locos as was house coal grade, though very good for my lounge coal fired stove!
the other half of my coal shed is full of welsh steam coal retrieved from former steam loco shed etc sites on The Valleys including a few 1' x 2" blocks of coal! there is no steam coal left in the sidings at Canton Depot or Rhymney or Stormstown, as all in my shed, thanks to permission of General Manager the late Tom Clift.
plus some bags of coal from Oakdale of Oakdale Cobbles, 'Phurnod', and Polish steam coal.
should last me out i hope!
there are various grades of steam oil as any preserved railway has for different types of loco. non superheated locos require a different grade to superheated locos, and locos for mainline use with superheaters require a different grade as well. due to our lower steam pressure used on our locos in miniature (and hence steam temperature), oil for non superheated engines is preferred. some grades are more refined than others. i always use the more refined grade on my 3.5"g GWR KING!
cheers, julian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 0:32:57 GMT
Quote}---"i always use the more refined grade on my 3.5"g GWR KING!"--------------- naturally !!
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