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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 20, 2015 9:08:03 GMT
Once again many thanks Julian, I will do my best to follow your tips and report back. Regards Paul
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2015 9:23:24 GMT
Julian's suggested solution might be what I need to do to fix Boadicea's Everlasting blow down valve which has a slow drip. The valve works on a similar principle to your regulator.
There's food for thought there.
Jim
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 20, 2015 13:50:31 GMT
Hi Jim hope you are over your recent debilitating illness and back in full production. I am aiming to get a couple of hours trying to resolve this later, don't think I have an Everlasting blow down valve on mine so hopefully after the regulator is sorted it should be plain sailing !.  One lives in hope. Regards Paul |
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 21, 2015 18:20:36 GMT
Hi all, I have been trying to get the regulator to seal and have had only limited success. I have attempted to fine finish the contact faces but one of them is nearly 2" down a 9/16" hole so its a bit like attempting a tonsillectomy on a duck from the rear end.  Its difficult to estimate how much air is leaking so I have decided to try and measure it which I would appreciate comments on. I am going to fit a 3/4" 150 PSI gauge to the finished loco (I know this is oversize but I am concerned about visibility) which I am ordering on Monday. When it arrives I propose to fit it to the regulator outlet pipe and see what pressure is leaking when it is supposedly closed. Is this a sensible plan and has anyone any experience of this type of test, or if a certain amount of leakage is acceptable. Regards Paul |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 21, 2015 20:30:00 GMT
hi paul,
i suspect you have got the regulator as good a fit as possible. a test on air is less forgiving than water. however if you add a dollop of thick steam oil all might be well!
i always try to arrange my smokebox innards so i can blank off the steam pipe from the superheater hot header for the dreaded 4 yearly test. the nipple on the union to the steam chest(s) pipe connection is flat as per the connections for steam and delivery on injectors, and when the union is undone a disc of copper is added for the test and everything tightened up again.
cheers,
julian
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Post by springcrocus on Mar 21, 2015 22:48:36 GMT
...a bit like attempting a tonsillectomy on a duck from the rear end.... The mind boggles, but brilliant anyway.  Steve |
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 22, 2015 0:08:24 GMT
Thanks for the encouragement Julian, I will report how the leak test goes, Steve glad you liked it. Some of these odd ball sayings come from a miss spent youth as an apprentice in a small machine shop. Regards Paul
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 30, 2015 18:40:33 GMT
Hi, I have now spent more than a week trying to resolve this regulator problem and when in the closed position I was still managing to get 25 PSI. at the outlet. As I explained previously the one face is 2" down a 5/8" od. pipe so working on it is very difficult. I see Jim has managed to resolve the problem he had using the sound advice that has been given (I have considered a visit to Jim for help to solve my problem but I think the cost would be prohibitive ). So I have decided to make a different type of regulator, not sure of the correct terminology but basically a screw type with an angled end into a plain reamed hole. Thanks to you all for your help and encouragement but I have just lost faith in my ability to resolve the problem with this design (hangs head in shame).  Regards Paul |
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Post by runner42 on Mar 30, 2015 21:59:28 GMT
Paul, it appears from your posts that you have either silver soldered or permanently fixed in some way the output end of the regulator to the tube, hence your having to polish the fixed face at the bottom of the tube. Well silver solder can be separated so you have both faces readily available, that's what I would do. Having said that a screw type regulator is a better option, but make the screw thread as coarse as possible since you have a small arc to go from shut to open.
Brian
PS Rob Roy uses a screw type regulator and the tube and backhead part of the existing regulator can be used. |
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 30, 2015 22:18:22 GMT
Hi Brian and thanks, yes I silver soldered the one end so I could "unstick" them but have lost faith in my ability to get it to work. I am opting for 3/8" BSW so 16 TPI. fortunately RH will work correctly, that is close clockwise so I have the required taps and dies. I did consider making it 8 TPI, 2 start by screw cutting the male and making a tap at the same time (which I may do in the future) but was advised that if I use a 120 deg. end angle with a flat end face just smaller than the hole it will work fine, only time will tell. Many thanks for your input regards Paul
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Post by Cro on Mar 30, 2015 22:39:09 GMT
Paul,
I have had a quick flick through your thread and just wanted to add something quickly, try one of two things which I have used in the past on some of my grandads locos.
Either re-make your moving disc out of PTFE using a very sharp tool to get the best finish possible and a semi-strong spring nothing too heavy but enough to keep it on the seat.
OR
Open the two holes up you have made in your moving disc and again using PTFE make two little, what I call, buttons or Top Hat shapes to fit inside them and again try get the two faces the best you can and in theory as true as you can to one another once fitted, you may even want to do the finishing cut with them on the disc so they would need to be a fairly firm press fit. The only thing you will then find with this is rather than lining up the holes in both disc and body to open regulator it works the other way round so you are moving the small "top hats" off the holes to uncover them. I have used this in both my Britannia and Maid of Kent and not had a problem. Again you will want a fairly firm spring I always find.
Best of luck, if you want more details feel free to drop me a PM, I may even be able to whip the cover off a loco and get a photo if I can get to it in the garage.
Adam
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 31, 2015 18:49:55 GMT
Adam, many thanks for your input sorry for the delay but I have been working at the club today. Two very good suggestions which I will keep in my armoury for possible future use. What I have decided is to make a new main body for the regulator with the screw mechanism in one end and utilise all the cab end bits from my first attempt. This means that I still have the original main body and the disc parts to experiment on, whilst hopefully getting the engine operational. I think of the two suggestions I would probably go for a new disc out of PTFE as there is not a lot of space for the Top hat approach, I would also need to get the static disc out of the body as it is soldered in. Once again many thanks Paul
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Post by runner42 on Apr 1, 2015 22:13:16 GMT
Hi Brian and thanks, yes I silver soldered the one end so I could "unstick" them but have lost faith in my ability to get it to work. I am opting for 3/8" BSW so 16 TPI. fortunately RH will work correctly, that is close clockwise so I have the required taps and dies. I did consider making it 8 TPI, 2 start by screw cutting the male and making a tap at the same time (which I may do in the future) but was advised that if I use a 120 deg. end angle with a flat end face just smaller than the hole it will work fine, only time will tell. Many thanks for your input regards Paul Hi Paul you are obviously way ahead of me in the can do department, cutting 2 start threads and making a 2 start tap is way beyond my capability.
Brian
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Post by GWR 101 on Apr 2, 2015 8:11:56 GMT
Brian thanks, but perhaps I should have done it before I mentioned it , I hope to give it a "go" today. So later there will be either a warm glow or a lot of hair pulling and expletives, what is it they say pride comes before a fall, I promise to report back what ever the outcome. Regards Paul |
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Post by GWR 101 on Apr 6, 2015 7:36:31 GMT
Managed to complete most of the screw regulator yesterday, went for 8mm OD. X 3mm pitch X 2 start which I believe should give me a reasonable movement / seal. Hoping to fit the feed pipe today and test, every thing crossed hopefully except the threads. Regards Paul
These are the various bits.
And this is the assembly with the tap (apologies for the quality of the tap its functional rather than pretty) |
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Post by Jim on Apr 6, 2015 8:05:16 GMT
Well done Paul most impressive indeed. No need to apologise for the tap you've made it has obviously done the job and along the way opened my eyes to how to make a tap if needs a raise. Thanks for that.
Jim
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Post by GWR 101 on Apr 8, 2015 18:29:39 GMT
YES it works,  tried it this afternoon and it sealed without any leak with about 75 psi. trying to escape. It appears much easier to get a seal than the disc type and although there is probably slightly more rotation needed from open to closed this is probably better for some one like me with a heavy handed approach giving a greater degree of control. I really believe that selecting a course pitch thread was worth the extra effort. I will now press on headlong into the next pitfall / ambush that awaits in this wonderful hobby, many thanks to all for the help and encouragement. I think I need one of the famous smoothing ales, regards Paul |
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Post by ejparrott on Apr 8, 2015 21:03:59 GMT
I think Jim drank them all.....I know mine have vanished mysteriously!!!!!
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Post by Jim on Apr 8, 2015 21:22:50 GMT
Not me Ed I was enjoying a quiet whiff of Red Stag after bedding in my water gauges. Jim |
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dem132
Seasoned Member
Posts: 122
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Post by dem132 on May 6, 2015 13:09:04 GMT
I've been reading this thread with some interest, I'm in the process of making a regulator with my Black 5.
Out of interest, I'm thinking a bit further head of your build. How are you going to attach the super heater bush to the wetter header? 4 bolted PCD bush type? And whether to use a o-ring or washer between the two bushes to make it steam tight and allow for a bit of moment when installed the super heater elements.
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One lives in hope. Regards Paul
Its difficult to estimate how much air is leaking so I have decided to try and measure it which I would appreciate comments on. I am going to fit a 3/4" 150 PSI gauge to the finished loco (I know this is oversize but I am concerned about visibility) which I am ordering on Monday. When it arrives I propose to fit it to the regulator outlet pipe and see what pressure is leaking when it is supposedly closed. Is this a sensible plan and has anyone any experience of this type of test, or if a certain amount of leakage is acceptable. Regards Paul
Regards Paul 
tried it this afternoon and it sealed without any leak with about 75 psi. trying to escape. It appears much easier to get a seal than the disc type and although there is probably slightly more rotation needed from open to closed this is probably better for some one like me with a heavy handed approach giving a greater degree of control. I really believe that selecting a course pitch thread was worth the extra effort. I will now press on headlong into the next pitfall / ambush that awaits in this wonderful hobby, many thanks to all for the help and encouragement. I think I need one of the famous smoothing ales, 
