jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 20, 2015 20:59:47 GMT
the BR standards followed the Bulleid pacific arrangement of horns.
i cant for the life of me see what joan is getting at, or that steve has done anything wrong!
chees,
julian
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 21:20:41 GMT
John, it's not a criticism, just a comment. I have the same Brittannia plans and Steve cuts on the frames are not like the plans. I did not comment earlier because I wasn't sure about the actual plans he was using or how he would make the horns. But the latest picture showed the drawing of the horns and I think they will not match with the frames if done like that.
I refer to the angle at the bottom sides of the horns as both sides are not parallel. However the frame cuts look parallel at the matching location. Maybe is just a visual effect, but that's what it looks to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 21:32:07 GMT
From what I can see, it is the shape of the horn that is trapazoidal, not the cutout in the frame.
This will see me gone ... I am really tired of all this BS.
Tom
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 21:40:05 GMT
From what I can see, it is the shape of the horn that is trapazoidal, not the cutout in the frame. This will see me gone ... I am really tired of all this BS. Tom Guys, I do not deserve this treatment. Everything I say is systematically dismissed or ridiculed. My observation is totally valid and definitely not BS. I do not think that I am SO stupid. Even if I am wrong I do not deserve being treated as rubish. The lower cut of the frame should be trapezoidal to fit the horns ! |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 20, 2015 21:42:28 GMT
hi joan,
have a look at how the Bulleid horn castings are fitted to the frames and that is your answer!
cheers,
julian
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Post by simplyloco on Mar 20, 2015 21:42:44 GMT
From what I can see, it is the shape of the horn that is trapazoidal, not the cutout in the frame. This will see me gone ... I am really tired of all this BS. Tom Yet another member succumbs to the numbing effects of intellectual masturbation! John |
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 21:45:23 GMT
John, please stop it. Look at the BOTTOM of the horns.
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 21:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 22:05:23 GMT
I'm afraid that i'm at a loss here too as to what you are referring to Joan and although I wasn't going to respond to any more of your posts i guess my nature of wanting to help gets the better of me...... Steve has done the machining correctly, I think perhaps you are misreading the drawings or perhaps not fully understanding how the horns fit, or of course it's possible that we are all not understanding what you are referring to.... as the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words so perhaps if you take a look at a picture from my own build which is very similar to Steve's design it may help... hope so... i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/944turbo1/Flying%20Scotsman%204472/20140706_193028_zpsaa3c80d9.jpgPete |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 22:11:56 GMT
aha.. ok I see what you are referring too... not seen that on Steve's updates but this is one of those things that is best done in the fettle-ling stage, ie file by hand to match the horns as it says on the drawing
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 22:18:24 GMT
Hi Pete, I appreciate your reply. Believe me my observation is not that obvious or stupid.
Your picture does not show the same case. In the Britannia the frame cuts are T shaped. The horns are partly fit INSIDE the cut from their lower outer edges, not only from the middle. Look at the picture I posted above of the frame cuts. You can see a 3" dimension and a 3 1/8 dimension showing that both sides are not parallel where the cut is wider. This matches the lateral inclination of the horn outer sides at that point. Look also at the horns plans posted earlier by Steve. I do not think that my observation is stupid at all.
Please quote this message if you are replying, because John simplyloco has just blocked me. He deserves to learn that he should listen before behaving as he did.
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 22:20:33 GMT
aha.. ok I see what you are referring too... not seen that on Steve's updates but this is one of those things that is best done in the fettle-ling stage, ie file by hand to match the horns as it says on the drawing This answers my question, so in FACT the frames must be further treated with a file to fit the horns. |
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Post by simplyloco on Mar 20, 2015 22:26:04 GMT
Hi Pete, I appreciate your reply. Believe me my observation is not that obvious or stupid. l. Please quote this message if you are replying, because John simplyloco has just banned me. He deserves to learn that he should listen before behaving as he did. You joined the other numpties on my 'ignore' list yesterday. Perhaps I just don't want to listen any more, and I might not be alone... John |
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 22:27:41 GMT
John, You really have a problem. Nobody else has a 'ignore' list. Just you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 22:30:34 GMT
Hi Pete, I appreciate your reply. Believe me my observation is not that obvious or stupid. Your picture does not show the same case. In the Britannia the frame cuts are T shaped. The horns are partly fit INSIDE the cut from their lower outer edges, not only from the middle. Look at the picture I posted above of the frame cuts. You can see a 3" dimension and a 3 1/8 dimension showing that both sides are not parallel where the cut is wider. This matches the lateral inclination of the horn outer sides at that point. Look also at the horns plans posted earlier by Steve. I do not think that my observation is stupid at all. Please quote this message if you are replying, because John simplyloco has just blocked me. He deserves to learn that he should listen before behaving as he did. Joan, yes this is a different design to my own build, my horns are all on the inside of the frames with the tabs that fit tightly in the cut outs in the frame. Looking at the drawing you have shown and what Steve has shown it looks to me that these horns are proud of the frames both inner and outer, with only the lower part going through the frame and the upper part with the flange that bolts or rivets too the frames being fixed to one side, not sure which as i recall reading that Britannia may have it's horns fixed outside rather than in but stand to be corrected if i have this wrong. So going back to what Steve has done and I may be talking out of turn but for me the best way to tackle this is machine the T's square, machine the horns to drawing and then file the frames for the horns to be a tight fit in the slots...the upper part of the slot will be square, it's only the lower part that's angled to match the horns... at least this is how it looks to me..... as i said i stand to be corrected if i have this wrong.. Pete |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 20, 2015 22:35:20 GMT
it is too late tonight for me to trawl through my papers and drawings but i have a feeling i may need to apologise to joan for he may have raised a valuable point, having just dug out my 5"g Bulleid pacific horn castings and had a good look. there may indeed be an error on the 5"g Brit drawings. Jim will no doubt confirm one way or another as will Geoff, and our brilliant 9F builders! it's not quite my area of interest im afraid.
(anyone want 3 pairs of gunmetal hornblock castings for Ariel?)
cheers,
julian
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 22:39:13 GMT
Hi Pete, Yes you are right, it is only the lower part that is angled to match the horns, that was my point all the time, so if it is done square it does not directly match the horns.
So the answer is that the frames need to be filed to fit the horns.
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 22:47:01 GMT
Steve, Sorry if I have bothered you. I just meant to raise a simple observation and since I probably didn't explain well myself I got all sort of disqualifications. The later was really not needed.
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Post by simplyloco on Mar 20, 2015 22:48:54 GMT
SNIP And anyway, I don't have to slavishly follow the drawings if I don't want to - it's my loco and I will make it however I please.   SNIP Steve Agreed! Who are these people! John |
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Post by joanlluch on Mar 20, 2015 22:52:20 GMT
it is too late tonight for me to trawl through my papers and drawings but i have a feeling i may need to apologise to joan for he may have raised a valuable point, having just dug out my 5"g Bulleid pacific horn castings and had a good look. there may indeed be an error on the 5"g Brit drawings. Jim will no doubt confirm one way or another as will Geoff, and our brilliant 9F builders! it's not quite my area of interest im afraid. (anyone want 3 pairs of gunmetal hornblock castings for Ariel?) cheers, julian I accept your apology Julian. It's not actually an error in the Brit drawings but something that remains to be done on the frames. |
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