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Post by dhamblin on Mar 9, 2017 22:50:01 GMT
Time to introduce (or re-introduce, seeing as I started it on here in 2005!) the restoration of my Grandad's 3 1/2" Britannia, built to LBSC's design and completed during Winter 1961/1962.  Britannia by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr 10th June 1962 - in steam on the former Croydon SME track at Lindfield Road.  Britannia by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Grandad driving the loco around the Lindfield Road track. Remarkably the society actually have cinefilm footage shot by someone filming it from the riding truck around this period.  Britannia by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Sitting on the separate test track at Lindfield Road.  Britannia by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Grandad driving Britannia around the Southampton societies' track some time in the late 60's / early 70's.  Little and Large by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Fast forward to 1997 and Grandad gave the locomotive to me, shortly before he passed away in early 1998. In 2000 it is seen on my GCSE DT project - a new carrying case. Next to it is the Hornby version for scale.  Britannia Cab by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Cab layout - the sides and roof are not to the Standard design, but gives more room to access the controls.  Britannia by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Work begins - I had a kind offer to have the asbestos firebox insulation removed by professionals, so a hurried stripdown took place in summer 2005 to allow access. This was probably the first time it had been dismantled this far since build.  Britannia Firebox by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Firebox exposed for the first time in 40 years, showing the soft solder caulking as per the original build notes.  Blowdown Valve by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Another jump forward - life got in the way (a degree to finish, then a Masters, first job etc etc). My Dad passed away in early 2015, which prompted some reflection, as we had always said we would get it working one day. So in 2016 it was time to make good on that plan. With a bit more experience from my LU rolling stock job, I started assessing the loco's condition and catching up with the hobby again. Here is the everlasting blowdown valve, clearly not in the best of condition.  Britannia Smokebox by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Smokebox, with accumulated ash and oil deposits from 15 to 20 years of operation.  Britannia Smokebox by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr With locking bar removed I have started to clean up the worst deposits prior to a deeper clean with paraffin once the boiler is removed for assessment.  Britannia Valve Gear by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr General view of the right hand side valve gear - there is very little wear and it has been heavily oiled up to prevent corrosion.  Inspection Cover by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Removal of the superheater inspection cover, including the old hallite gasket material.  Britannia Smokebox by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr View inside the smokebox showing blower and superheater headers.  Britannia Gauge Glass by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Gauge glass fittings after removal of the heavily fogged up gauge glass (it was mainly used in a hard water area). The slight mis-alignment will need to be corrected before the new glass goes in. This will be a slow burn project this year - I have an eye to setting up a workshop to support restoration and future builds. Lots of things to think about - it was Grandad's engine so I intend to keep it substantially as it is until bits wear out and require replacement. It hasn't worked since the 1970's, so the boiler will have to be thoroughly checked over before attempting to test it for certification. Unfortunatey the paperwork went AWOL but it hasn't worked since before the early 80's change to the testing regime. There are subtle changes I want to make such as making the ashpan more user friendly when dropping the fire and removing the ashes, looking at the parallel tread wheel profiles, fixing the slightly distorted petticoat pipe, reinstating the steam brake, converting the tender to riding truck coupling to accept a bar type, improving the footplate to firebox backhead fixings etc. I've been getting very good advice from the guys at Croydon SME, which has helped with the early stages. More to come as and when time permits! Regards, Dan |
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Post by Jim on Mar 10, 2017 5:31:12 GMT
Lovely to have the history of your grandad's loco in those photos Dan.
Look forward to see your progress in restoring the loco.
Jim. (70036)
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Midland
Elder Statesman
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Post by Midland on Mar 10, 2017 19:49:31 GMT
Best wishes for a successful restoration. Bring it to our 3 1/2" day in Southampton and share your progress, you just mighgt meet 'simplyloco'.
Cheers D
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Post by dhamblin on Aug 19, 2017 21:58:38 GMT
With the main locomotive in storage while the workshop building is sorted out I've made a start on servicing the tender.  Tender Wheelset by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Rear-most tender wheelset has the right hand wheel loose on its axle, should be fixable but I want to look at re-profiling the wheels to current standards first. All wheels have the usual build up of gunk on spokes and machined surfaces.  Tender Chassis Cleaning by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Rear-most wheelset cleaned up and a start made on the frames, horn blocks and guides. Regards, Dan |
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Post by dhamblin on Sept 8, 2017 19:20:54 GMT
I've been thinking about the wheel profiles in advance of getting the workshop set up. Below is plotted (in Visio) the current wheel profile in black, as per LBSC design notes, and the 3 1/2" gauge profile in current SMEE standards in red.  Wheel Profile Comparison by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr The flange root radius on the existing wheelsets is an approximation and will need to be measured properly, but is good enough for the comparison. I can clearly improve matters by putting a radius on the flange tip and reducing the flange depth, but the 20 deg. flange angle will require quite a bit of metal taking off the diameter to achieve. Similarly it should be straightforward to put the 2 deg. cone angle on it. There are a lot of older models in circulation that have similar wheel profiles so I wonder if anyone has experience of correcting this to allow operation on properly profiled rail? The current square flange tip is clearly unacceptable for running on profiled rail, especially if made of aluminium. My thinking is that on raised tracks, without pointwork, compromising on the flange width and angle is less problematic than for running on ground level tracks i.e. a flange tip radius and cone angle should be sufficient. Regards, Dan |
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Post by Jim on Sept 8, 2017 23:40:45 GMT
Hi Dan, You may find the details you are seeking here on the AALS (Australian Assoc.of Live Steamer's) site : www.aals.asn.au/Your restoration sounds a great project to undertake. Jim. Oh dear, just checked the link and it only takes you to the AALS home page not the data page I'd intended, to reach that just scroll down to Resources in the LH panel. then to the wheel standard you're looking for under Standards. |
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Post by 92220 on Sept 9, 2017 7:44:17 GMT
Good luck with the restoration Dan. Hope it all goes well. That's great, having the loco's history in photos.
Bob.
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Post by silverfox on Sept 9, 2017 17:38:44 GMT
Dan
Re the wheel profile.
Is putting on steel tyres an option?
Ron
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Post by dhamblin on Sept 9, 2017 20:28:35 GMT
Thanks all, it is a steep learning curve, but an enjoyable one  Ron silverfox - I must admit the idea of fitting steel tyres had crossed my mind. I have some old wheel castings that we recovered from Grandad's shed when we cleared the house after Gran died, some of which are intended to take steel tyres so I might try a trial run with one of them once I have a lathe sorted out. On a related note I did an investigation into some unusual wheel profile problems on Jubilee line trains a few years ago where the flange backs had been machined away to create a step, resulting in a thin flange but with the gauge corner in the correct place. The risk was therefore that the the wheelset could move further laterally in places where check rail is fitted than was intended i.e. risk of flange tip striking the crossing nose. This only happened at extremes of the check rail tolerance and on cast crossings with a certain amount of wear, so was safe to operate with an enhanced checking regime until the wheelsets were replaced within the following year. The suspicion was that the profile defect came from using a different wheel lathe during the early years of the fleet when maintenance was carried out at Neasden. So, in relation to Britannia's wheelsets I know that for correct operation through P&C the flange profile is quite critical, but on plain profiled track I am intrigued to know whether smaller changes would achieve the same effect. After all 3 1/2" gauge ground level tracks with P&C are rare compared with raised track. Regards, Dan |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,918
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Post by jma1009 on Sept 9, 2017 20:46:04 GMT
Hi Dan,
If you dont have a lathe yet I wouldnt worry too much especially for a raised track.
What you are likely to find is a problem with leaking LBSC type piston valves that will require a lot of trouble to correct and put right.
When you get to remaking the petticoat pipe give me a shout as I suspect a few easy improvements can be incorporated.
Always interested to hear from people who actually work on the railways especially LT in your case (or TfL nowadays).
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by dhamblin on Sept 9, 2017 21:06:50 GMT
Thanks Julian, will do. I suspect there is plenty of space in there to make some subtle adjustments to the petticoat pipe.
I am TfL now as big changes are underway to the structure of the organisation with all engineers ending up in a pan-TfL Engineering Directorate organised along functional lines.
Hoping to get a workshop up and running before Christmas, although first task is to get the boiler off so as the club boiler inspector can have a good look at it.
Regards,
Dan
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,918
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Post by jma1009 on Sept 9, 2017 22:26:15 GMT
Hi Dan,
I don't have many railway ancestors but my Grandpa worked for Esso all his life and had an encyclopedic knowledge of steam oil from the late 1920s, and my great grandfather was a class A signalman at Earls Court. A great Uncle Lionel Markham was killed in an accident as a motorman/driver on the District in the 1920s.
I have a tin of Met chocolately red paint somewhere in a shed from Neasden when Sarah Siddons was repainted. My first loco was painted in Met chocolately red. A lovely deep colour!
When we stayed with my grandparents at Rayners Lane in the very early 1970s we were told of 'ghost' trains in the night - which we never believed - till years later learnt of the ex GWR pannier tanks working trains at night.
Cheers,
Julian
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pugsy
Active Member
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Post by pugsy on Sept 9, 2017 22:41:40 GMT
Hi Dan, I don't have many railway ancestors but my Grandpa worked for Esso all his life and had an encyclopedic knowledge of steam oil from the late 1920s, and my great grandfather was a class A signalman at Earls Court. A great Uncle Lionel Markham was killed in an accident as a motorman/driver on the District in the 1920s. I have a tin of Met chocolately red paint somewhere in a shed from Neasden when Sarah Siddons was repainted. My first loco was painted in Met chocolately red. A lovely deep colour! When we stayed with my grandparents at Rayners Lane in the very early 1970s we were told of 'ghost' trains in the night - which we never believed - till years later learnt of the ex GWR pannier tanks working trains at night. Cheers Julian Hmm? Ghost trains on the underground? What about the handsomely proportioned but ill fated Fowler  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 7:57:19 GMT
Hi Dan, I don't have many railway ancestors but my Grandpa worked for Esso all his life and had an encyclopedic knowledge of steam oil from the late 1920s, and my great grandfather was a class A signalman at Earls Court. A great Uncle Lionel Markham was killed in an accident as a motorman/driver on the District in the 1920s. I have a tin of Met chocolately red paint somewhere in a shed from Neasden when Sarah Siddons was repainted. My first loco was painted in Met chocolately red. A lovely deep colour! When we stayed with my grandparents at Rayners Lane in the very early 1970s we were told of 'ghost' trains in the night - which we never believed - till years later learnt of the ex GWR pannier tanks working trains at night. Cheers, Julian I can testify to those ghost trains working at night Julian, from 67 until early 80's my parents lived in Rayners Lane, their Maisonette was close to the viaduct and from the first floor small bedroom, we had a good view of the viaduct. Late one night I heard this noise, looked out the window and there was this lovely sight of a steam engine (later I knew that it was a pannier) steaming across the viaduct heading towards South Harrow station. You could easily describe the scene as a 'ghost train', fond memories... Pete |
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Post by dhamblin on Dec 19, 2017 22:41:15 GMT
A big milestone today - the boiler is off  Britannia Chassis by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Loco chassis shorn of boiler, leading bogie and all the platework.  Britannia Chassis by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr View from the cab end looking over the grate and ashpan.  Britannia Cylinders and Blastpipe by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Cylinders, blastpipe and oil feeds. Fortunately the rearmost screws holding the smokebox saddle to the frame plates were missing (holes don't line up), which made the task of separating everything much easier.  Britannia Boiler by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Boiler and smokebox assembly. The build notes suggest using thin asbestos board to lag the boiler, so while I was masked and suited to get rid of the last bit around the foundation ring I took off the boiler bands to have a look. Very pleased to report there was none present, which was a major relief.  Britannia Firebox by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Firebox with everlasting blowdown valve on the right.  Britannia Firebox by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr Firebox looking towards the combustion chamber with rearmost set of water tubes visible.  Britannia Ashpan by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr View of the ashpan and grate after a long cleaning session. There was an almost solid block of ash and clinker at the front corners where it is difficult to clear it off the side shelves. I'm tempted to add some doors here to allow these areas to be easily cleared in future. Centre section of the grate had seized in the up position, which might be why there was so much unburnt material still in the firebox. Soon freed after the pins had a brief soak with WD40. Next steps - finish cleaning tender chassis then on to stripping the boiler cladding and smokebox so the club inspector can have a proper look at it. With the front bogie run out I can get that cleaned up too. Regards, Dan |
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 19, 2017 23:30:25 GMT
Now where have I seen similar pictures just recently... We should be talking! |
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Post by jon38r80 on Dec 20, 2017 8:00:25 GMT
They were not 'ghost trains but trains that took coal through to the house coal depots at Hillingdon and Uxbridge. I lived near the met/Piccadilly line at Ickenham and used to see and hear them. Back in the 1960's in my youf.
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Post by dhamblin on Dec 20, 2017 10:30:29 GMT
Now where have I seen similar pictures just recently... We should be talking! Yes, we should . Spooky coincidence that we posted on the same day! If Southampton do a 3 1/2" open day in 2018 I would like to bring it down in working order, but that does depend on the boiler being in good condition and ticketed plus my ability to fix all the other little bits in time. Hope you get lots done before flying out. On LT pannier tanks - there is a very good book called 'Red Panniers' by John Scott-Morgan and Kirk Martin that details their history and usage. Fingers crossed we have steam shuttles between Ealing Broadway and High Street Kensington at the end of July 2018. Regards, Dan |
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Post by Cro on Dec 20, 2017 14:36:16 GMT
Now if they do that and you both full your fingers out I could bring a 3rd Brit down! Just saying....!
(Don't make it August though, not sure I could get out of the wedding & honeymoon to play trains!)
If you have any questions Dan you know where I am, the loco is going to Ally Pally again in January hopefully lined up with a lovely 3 1/2" Pullman if I get my way.
Adam
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Post by dhamblin on Dec 20, 2017 18:08:32 GMT
Thanks Adam, that sounds like a challenge! Hopefully will see you at Alexandra Palace on the Saturday all being well, although I will be lucky if I'm there at the same time as Lionel again. The Pullman sounds intriguing, especially in 3 1/2".
Regards,
Dan
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