3.5" Britannia restoration

[oldnorton]

Aug 7, 2024 8:43:51 GMT Jim said:

Like you Dan, I've had problems with my injectors not picking up.

Have checked the clack valves and replaced the stainless balls with nitrile balls without any great improvement. I did find that spraying the injector with a mist of cold water from an old trigger operated spray bottle did the trick with the cooler injector picking up straight away.

It has been suggeted by a very experienced builder/club member that the problem could be in the cab steam valve leaking and so making the injector hot. 

I haven't checked this yet but I will.

Once working the injector quickly brings the water level up.

Jim

Hi Jim

Tiny steam leak is not a problem. My injectors most always need 5 seconds of letting the water flow first to cool them down. Water flow is a fast drip, almost a trickle.

Norm

[dhamblin]

I normally have the water valve open to allow a steady drip out of the overflow to provide cooling. Funny enough there was a 5" U Class 2-6-0 on the adjacent steaming bay that had a similar issue and the owner was dousing it water to try and get pick up. Wasn't especially hot that day but seemed a bit of a coincidence.

The injector has been given another 20 minute citric acid bath in the ultrasonic tank and thoroughly washed through with fresh water. I've used BondLoc hydraulic sealant on the three adapter unions this time but stuck with Stag A jointing compound on the steam inlet union cone and the water one. Also experimented by putting a Viton O-ring in the steam inlet union adapter so it pushes the steam cone properly home in the injector body. Where the O-ring has compressed and closed the bore I've opened it up with a 2mm drill bit, so I'll see if that helps with overall sealing of the joint.

Need to devise a small clamp for the clear silicone tubes that bring the water feeds across from the tender, they slip over the copper pipes at the moment and whilst there is no obvious air passage or leakage it would be good to have something that rules it out.

On the wider subject of injectors - definitely a fan (when they work!). Ability to be able to put a lot of water into the boiler when stationary is a great benefit to stress free running.

Regards,

Dan

[johan]

Aug 9, 2024 8:32:30 GMT dhamblin said:

Need to devise a small clamp for the clear silicone tubes that bring the water feeds across from the tender, they slip over the copper pipes at the moment and whilst there is no obvious air passage or leakage it would be good to have something that rules it out.

You have those clips that the people with RC use: www.flashrc.com/en/gasoline-methanol-hoses-acc/10119-hose-clips-dia-6mm-10-pcs-a2pro.html Exists in different sizes.

[Cro]

Dan,

I would avoid any sealant on the fittings, firstly because you shouldn’t need them but secondly because you are more likely to block a passageway or get sealant into your injector or the boiler.

In terms of hose clamp method try machining a small brass ring, 1-2mm wide and 1mm larger than the pipe you are using and solder in place. This will give the pipe something to go over and will seal it in place.

Adam

[chris vine]

I once had a steam up spoiled by a drain valve which wouldn’t shut. Found a bit of silicone sealant stuck under it…
Chris

[dhamblin]

Thanks chaps lots to think about there and I'll add them to the Winter maintenance list to be worked on alongside the Pannier tank. Mulling over whether to apply for an IMLEC entry at Fareham next year so I have a few things planned on the jobs list.

Long running session with Britannia at Leatherhead yesterday and the injector seems better, albeit it isn't running dry. Bizarrely there was one time where it almost ran dry, which we couldn't work out why it was suddenly working better. One thing I haven't done is clean out the tender inlet filter, which as we're in a hard water area may be a source of restriction on the water feed.

One more track run to come this month and I'll do a combined photo and video update.

Regards,

Dan

[dhamblin]

Cylinder Work, a drop and three track runs

The long overdue update on Britannia since the Hall Place run in April.


Right Hand Cylinder Removed by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Right hand cylinder removed to allow re-sealing and replacement graphited yarn packing on the piston. Interestingly there was a lot less moisture in the joint, but more oil compared to the left hand cylinder.


RH Cylinder Sealing by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Right hand cylinder with all ports sealed and hooked up to the ash vacuum. Loctite 638 is being used to try and seal the leaking joint between valve cylinder and the main cylinder block, which is the green stuff seen around that joint. This uses the same vacuum wicking technique as for the boiler sealing carried out in 2019, only this time I am using clamps, brass plates and gaskets to seal the block. I suspect I would have had more success with the thinner grade Loctite 648 but I had this to hand so worth a try rather than permanently lock it in with soft solder and then having to clean it up.


Cylinder Painting by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Both cylinders were treated and then reassembled. The right hand one had fresh graphited yarn packing and both were reattached to their mounting plates using Loctite SI 5926 Silicone sealant in place of the Stag A, which leaked too much during the Hall Place run, primarily because it is a liquid sealant and doesn't set. Both assemblies were then thoroughly cleaned with thinners, masked up then spray painted with Upol Acid-8 primer and are seen here in the spray booth after receiving first coat of satin black paint.


Smoke Arrestor Mk2 by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Spark arrestor Mk2. Basically a brass plate over the exhaust to snuff out and deflect burning / unburnt bits of the fire. A piece of brass has been silver soldered to a copper tube, which is then wrapped around the chimney. The brass baffle is silver soldered to a length of 1/8" steel rod, which is threaded 5BA at the base and locked in place.


Draincock Repair by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Final bit of repairs - right hand cylinder leading draincock has had the spindle arm resoldered on using a soldering iron and soft solder. Very pleased with this because using the gas torch would have put far too much heat into the delicate spindle assembly, whereas the iron put just enough in to melt the solder into the joint with a bit of help from the fluid flux.


New Whistle by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Whistle replaced with one from Maccs Models that matched the pipe union thread. Certain tracks require a working whistle as a warning device, which the original LBSC 'chime' whistle certainly wasn't providing. This one should be a bit louder.


Exhaust Port Sealing by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

To try and seal the cylinder exhaust port to blast pipe connection each side has had a viton O-ring added with Loctite SI 5926 silicone sealant. More sealant is then added around the exhaust port when the cylinders go back on. The reason for this is because the blast pipe assembly is now stuck between the frames and, without getting the boiler off, I can't properly reseal the interface between the two blast pipe flanges and the frames. This method therefore tries to seal the joint from the high pressure side as well as trying to prevent steam / oil / water getting out into the joint between cylinder assembly and frames.


Disaster by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

This is the view after the infamous drop incident as I was getting the locomotive reassembled for testing at the end of July. Basically it was further forward than this position with the bogie bolster resting on the lifting table handle. In the process of lifting it up (to allow front steps to clear the handle) and rolling it back to do the next reassembly steps, it toppled towards the camera and because I was still desperately clinging to the buffer beam it fell cab end down to the floor. The boiler handrail this side was badly bent and one stanchion pulled out, the left hand feed clack took a whack as the loco rotated fully and the veranda got bent as well as the boiler shifting forward about 2-3mm. The bent bits have been straightened as best as possible but the stanchion will require the barrel cladding to be removed to fix and then repainted. Blast pipe has been bent back to regain alignment with the petticoat pipe, full repositioning of the boiler will have to occur next time it is lifted.


Rainsbrook Valley Railway by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

After a successful steam test on the Friday night I travelled up to Rugby MES track at Rainsbrook Valley Railway on Sunday 4th August 2024 as a guest of one of their members who used to be an LU grad trainee with one of my colleagues on the overhaul programme. After admiring his 7 1/4" loco and having a ride around the ground level track I had a go with Britannia on the raised track. Loco is seen here heading out on the first lap. At 2400ft long it is I believe the second longest raised track in the UK. Injector still wasn't happy so I was using the axle pump to keep the boiler filled up and apart from a SNAFU when I left the coal tin behind and limped around the first lap the loco did really well. Axle pump now has an O-ring on the gland nut, which seems to work very well at keeping it water tight.




First video of Britannia going around the track at Rainsbrook Valley Railway.




Slightly longer second video coming off the original section of track onto the extension.


Rainsbrook Valley Railway by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

At the end of the truncated running session Britannia and driving truck are seen by the traverser from the steaming bays. Loco performed really well despite the lack of injector. Track was very smooth running with generous curve radii, a credit to the Rugby MES members who build and maintain it. Hopefully will get the chance to go back in future with a working injector and a bit more experience to fall back on!


Leatherhead by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Under a week later on Saturday 10th August 2024 it was time for the annual Croydon SME visit to the Leatherhead track of Surrey SME. No ground level running this year as various issues meant we didn't have our bigger 5" locos available so I made full use of the raised track for an extended running session. Britannia seen here underway and passing the fire station at the South end of the track. No issues with derailing this time after tweaks made since the November test.


Leatherhead by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Sitting opposite the ground level track signalbox while taking water.


Leatherhead by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Britannia coupled up to the driving truck and ready for another few laps.


A couple of videos from the days running:






Leatherhead by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Posed on the steaming bay raised track as the boiler blows down at the end of session. Total 2.5 hours on track, maximum continuous running period 15 minutes and half of a big tin of coal consumed. Injector is a bit hit and miss, but can feed water into the boiler so as noted previously that goes back on the jobs list.


Red Arrows 60 by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

A break from track running to head down to Eastbourne and catch the Red Arrows display, with this special manoeuvre marking their 60th anniversary.


Mote Park by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Saturday 17th August 2024: Maidstone Model Engineering Society 95th anniversary open day at their Mote Park track. A busy half of the steaming bays, with Britannia nearest the camera and a 5" Manor, Austerity and Jubilee behind. Electric blower is fitted and loco is ready for fire to be lit at first opportunity to get on track. The white cloth is there to stop ash from the vent on the blower covering the smokebox.


Mote Park by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

First lap out and heading across the bridge, climbing towards the summit of the line.


Mote Park by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Arriving back at the station area with the 5" Jubilee ahead.


A couple of extra length videos as the Mote Park track is about 1850ft in length and a lap was roughly 4m 30sec:






Mote Park by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Back on the steaming bay and blowing down the boiler after just over 1.5 hours track running. Britannia was one of 17 visiting locos, hauling its first passengers in over 40 years. It could comfortably manage with driver plus 1 passenger, but two passengers caused it to slip to a stand at the summit bend, which was probably a combination of being the only loco out cleaning the 3 1/2" rail plus the fact the rail is aluminium and a bit slippier. Excellent day though, great people and lovely weather, which everyone seemed to be enjoying. Also got to speak with Martin Evans briefly as he was down watching proceedings.


Loco performed very well overall, pleased with getting a lot of track time in across three very different tracks in under 2 weeks. Injector needs work, but I'm confident that can be made more reliable. Very pleased to get a chance to evaluate haulage capability, which will result in a bit of ballast weight going on over the Winter. Getting more confident about keeping the fire going and only had to resort to using charcoal once while at Mote Park to get bring it back after a longer pause in the station area. Just need to clean everything up, tighten the regulator rod gland nut on the backhead and tinker with the injector and we'll be ready for the annual steam test in late September.

Regards,

Dan

[barlowworks]

Hi Dan, your Britannia is running beautifully and is a credit to you, l’m very impressed. Can I ask how your regulator works, your engine does not seem to have the operating rods running down the side of the boiler. I must get round to doing more to my 5 inch Brit, just building some point work for my garden railway first. Once that is complete I will have to see where I put down my mojo in the workshop and get cracking.

All the best

Mike

[dhamblin]

Thanks Mike, in fairness I've done relatively little to it - that performance is using Grandad's original valve setting.

The regulator is the alternative dome mounted one offered by LBSC and can be a bit of a pain. If you look back through this thread you'll see the fun and games had trying to make it work reliably. Even now it snaps open a bit too much for the uninitiated due to the slop in the mechanism. I would recommend a prototypically correct smokebox regulator because you can modify it to your heart's content without digging around in the boiler.

Regards,

Dan

[dhamblin]

Passed the annual steam test yesterday and it looks like I've fixed the injector. Tightened up the gland nut on the water valve spindle and the injector ran almost dry three times. Everlasting blowdown valve is now playing up but that was already on the Winter jobs list due to the linkage becoming very loose

Regards,

Dan

[JonL]

Aug 19, 2024 18:07:29 GMT dhamblin said:

Thanks Mike, in fairness I've done relatively little to it - that performance is using Grandad's original valve setting.

The regulator is the alternative dome mounted one offered by LBSC and can be a bit of a pain. If you look back through this thread you'll see the fun and games had trying to make it work reliably. Even now it snaps open a bit too much for the uninitiated due to the slop in the mechanism. I would recommend a prototypically correct smokebox regulator because you can modify it to your heart's content without digging around in the boiler.

Regards,

Dan

I'd seriously consider a steam rated ball valve. I've fitted one to my Britannia and its superb. Seals completely, very progressive, and requires no maintenance. If I ever make another locomotive I'd use one again without a doubt.

[oldnorton]

I have just seen your pictures and videos of the steaming at many tracks. Well done getting the Britannia to run so well, and for taking it to different locations!! Some people finish off engines and store them, you have proved that yours will run on several occasions. Your video compilation was well put together.

Mote Park looked to be a good long run. Did you notice much difference in track quality as you travelled?

Norm

[dhamblin]

Thanks Norm, I'm just trying to enjoy it as much as possible just as Grandad intended it all those years ago. My plan this year was originally Hall Place (W&DMES), Tonbridge and then two visits to Leatherhead, but circumstances meant the Rainsbrook and Mote Park visits got added / substituted.

I think the track quality is pretty high across all the tracks I've run on so far this year, possibly the only differentiator being the sharpness of transition from straight to curve and vice versa, which you can probably see from some of the videos. Perhaps side control springs on the leading bogie might help? Can't complain though as all the visits have been for free and as a society without a permanent track I'm very grateful for the opportunities to enjoy other societies facilities.

Regards,

Dan

[dhamblin]

2024: That's a Wrap

After getting the loco through the annual steam test with a full set of working hand pump, axle pump and injector there was time for one last track run before Winter maintenance begins. This was a return trip to Leatherhead for the Surrey Society of Model Engineers visiting societies day on Sunday 6th October.


Rush Hour by Daniel Hamblin, on Flickr

Britannia at the back of a queue on the raised track while a loco is brought on via the traverser. I had one of the passenger trucks hooked up to my riding truck and gave rides to a couple of the visitors including my best friend of 35+ years and his youngest son.




Short video of driving the loco around the curve towards the station area.


Fire died on me several times towards the end of 2 hours on track, which was a bit of a set-back from the good running had at Maidstone. I suspect the stop / start nature of the short track didn't help and there was quite a bit of clinker in there when I cleaned it out this week. There is now a very long list of jobs to attend to ready for next season:

- Blowdown valve rebuild (boiler off to get at it)
- Barrel cladding repair and repaint after the drop incident
- Realign the steam pipes so the boiler sits back in the right place
- New blastpipe nozzle with a 6.5mm orifice to bring the orifice to throat ratio down to 1:3.2
- Fit a speedometer / odometer
- Fit safety chains between loco and tender and tender to driving truck
- Re-solder the soft solder joint between cylinder drain cocks bowden cable and lever link in the cab
- Re-align blast pipe and chimney
- Add a bit of ballast weight
- Paintwork touch ups
- Replace the dummy front vacuum brake pipe
- Increase lubricator capacity
- Even thinner pipe on the oil can to get at the tricky stuff (rear of guide bars)

Bit of work on the pannier tank first though.

Regards,

Dan

[oldnorton]

Fire died on me several times towards the end of 2 hours on track, which was a bit of a set-back from the good running had at Maidstone. I suspect the stop / start nature of the short track didn't help and there was quite a bit of clinker in there when I cleaned it out this week. There is now a very long list of jobs to attend to ready for next season:

We had a new delivery of anthracite beans at our club at the start of the year, and several are finding their fires going out unexpectedly.  The new stuff just seems to have less flammability, makes a sticky dust ash, and leaves clinker pieces. To run with it I keep the fire much bigger and have to carefully rake through every 40 minutes or so, then add a lot of coal (although I dislike calling it that, as it is poor anthracite) and put the blower on fully.

Norm

[dhamblin]

Thanks Norm, based on your earlier note I was planning a thorough rake through at 1 hour mark(s). When it first died it was still glowing a dull orange/red, so I turned the blower up and started raking - the fire slumped by about half height, couldn't believe it! Must have been all that ash choking the base, which probably meant the clinker was already in there somewhere. It didn't help that I had been sat in the steaming bay ready to go for 30 minutes because I got blocked in, which meant my 1 hour wasn't where I thought it was.

The fine ash is darker grey and there is normally a lot of it when cleaning out the ashpan. All part of the learning experience.

Regards,

Dan

[oldnorton]

Yes, I see exactly the same. It is all down to the poor grade of anthracite in the bags of household fuel.

[JonL]

I'm routinely pulling out clinker that's almost Jaffa Cake sized. I couldn't think of a suitable alternative measurement reference....