mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mbrown on Sept 8, 2020 10:37:32 GMT
As I mentioned in another thread on sticking pump valves, I put the drain plug on the Burma Mines loco tender directly under the hand pump inlet valve so that the ball could be unstuck with a cocktail stick, or similar, through the drain hole. On all my locos, the drain is a short length of 3/8" tube either soldered or screwed into the tender or tank floor, closed with a simple push-in plug sealed with an O ring. I have never had any trouble with them working loose, although others might prefer a more positive fixing.
Mine are, of course, relatively small locos - a bigger bore drain may be better for a 5"g standard gauge tender.
Malcolm
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Post by runner42 on Sept 11, 2020 7:28:52 GMT
I decided to have the tender drain system as simple as possible, but depending on the efficacy it may change. The drain consists of a right angle pipe rigidly attached to the tender frame using a cross member as the anchor point. The outboard end exit on the tender side and utilises a brass plug with an O ring to seal. At the moment there is a Teflon plug, because I dropped the brass plug on the floor and after an hour on my hands and knees looking for it I decided to wait a day before looking again. The inboard end will pass through the sole plate, but because the sealing of the pass through needs to be able to readily mated/de-mated, the sealing will utilise an RTV or similar compound. The copper tube is run of the mill 12.7 mm used in plumbing, so it should empty the tender pretty quickly. Brian  drain pipe by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by runner42 on Sept 14, 2020 7:30:42 GMT
Because the plumbing grade copper tube is not at least after silver soldering unable to maintain a tight circular inside measurement and exhibits some ovality the brass plug and O ring couldn't provide a perfect seal and it drips ever so slightly. Added is the fact that the plug is hand tight and may loosen during a rough track run, I dispensed with the plug and O ring method and went for using a 1/4" ball valve. The transition piece between the ball valve and copper tube is silver soldered so any ovality is corrected. Because the hole size is now reduced I decided to have a similar transition piece on the sole plate so that some mechanical securing method can be implemented. No picture at present but follows soon.
Brian
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Post by runner42 on Sept 15, 2020 7:22:28 GMT
My change in the drain system is an improvement both in water tight integrity and functioning. I think that a 1/4" hole size will drain the tender before I need to move on. I will test it tomorrow to see how long it takes. Doing modifications on the fly (without drawings) tend to produce secondary problems, but this time I am lucky that the drain hole doesn't interfere with the fixing of the emergency hand pump. Brian  drain system by Brian Leach, on Flickr  drain system1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr  drain system2 by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by coniston on Sept 15, 2020 20:42:35 GMT
Looks a sound practical solution, I really must do something similar on my B1.
Chris D
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Post by runner42 on Sept 18, 2020 6:52:57 GMT
The size of pipework providing water services to the boiler was predicated on the selection of the 24 oz injector provided by E J Winter. This size uses 5/16" x 32 nuts and tails for a 3/16 " pipe so the pipework should also be 3/16". I provisioned all the pipes to this size and where other connections are required such as the axle and tender pumps used the 5/16" x 32 thread form. However I am now thinking that the pipe size should be bigger say 1/4", this will have an effect on everything I have done so far, which can be corrected but means going up to a 40 oz injector. The question is twofold is 1/4" pipework a better selection for a 5" gauge Black 5 and if so will the 40 oz be too big?
Brian
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Post by suctionhose on Sept 18, 2020 7:00:47 GMT
40oz is much too big. 24 will be fine. Stick with the pipe sizes the injector was made for.
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Post by coniston on Sept 18, 2020 21:00:58 GMT
40oz is much too big. 24 will be fine. Stick with the pipe sizes the injector was made for. Agreed, 3/16 pipe is ok, but use thin wall if you can. I have two 24oz injectors on my B1 (similar size to Black 5) and only use one at a time. It has no problem filling the boiler in no time. In fact I am now going to experiment with a No2 (11oz) to see if it will keep up with the steam generation by leaving it on all the time. Chris D |
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Sept 20, 2020 2:28:36 GMT
Useful being able to stick them behind the cab steps. Vertical ones of course.
Reading members are in favor of having a big red button...
And a powerful pump that gets them out of difficulty.
Part of the fun goes missing of engine management.
David and Lily.
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Post by runner42 on Oct 8, 2020 6:45:35 GMT
I have been struggling with a beefier tender pump. The ram is 5/8" dia and 1.25" stroke which should produce a significant output. However I used a 9/64" seating dia with a 7/32" stainless steel ball. I can't remember how I arrived at that and I don't know if that is an optimum permutation. However, the output wasn't as I expected. I substituted the 7/32" dia Stainless steel balls with 7/32" dia Viton balls, thinking that a compressible ball would seal better, but the opposite was realised. Investigating, I found that the top ball would not return to it's seat and put this down to being lighter than the stainless steel and any residual water in the top section caused the ball to tend to float instead of sinking rapidly to the seat as did the stainless steel. Has anyone had success with Viton balls in this application?  tender pump by Brian Leach, on Flickr Installing the tender pump was nearly straightforward, the pump output pipe is returned to the RHS and the transition through the soleplate is placed so that it is easily accessible when the back cover is removed. I shouldn't have bothered with photographs because my digital camera is rubbish as in doesn't allow macro settings to be applied to normal photographs., so it is easy to get out of focus ones.  tender pump1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr The position of the tender pump allows for a full stroke with the large domed hood removed.  tender pump2 by Brian Leach, on Flickr  tender back by Brian Leach, on Flickr The dome in place. The front end shows the tender brake operating mechanism a la LBSC, with the injector water control valve again copied from LBSC, but maybe not so elegant. It may change.  tender front by Brian Leach, on Flickr Brian |
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Post by builder01 on Oct 9, 2020 10:10:18 GMT
If you are concerned about the Viton balls floating, just drop one in a cup of water and see what happens. Mine are very dense and sink right to the bottom when I gave them the water test. Even if they did float, they should be captured close enough to the seat that the water flow should force them into place. There is probably something else going on.
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Post by runner42 on Oct 10, 2020 4:43:53 GMT
Painting the tender body black had to follow the same procedure as when applying the etched primer, viz outside on the lawn with some plastic sheeting to prevent the grass taking on the black colour and not picking up the grass shoots in close proximity close to the tender body. I would not have bothered taking pictures, because the presentation of the paintwork would not be classified as great, only functional in my estimation. I provided the photographs because at this time of year the gardens back and front are at their finest. So I attempted to show the flower beds in the background, but maybe they don't do justice to the picturesque nature that I was hoping to convey.  tender paint by Brian Leach, on Flickr  tender paint1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr  tender paint2 by Brian Leach, on Flickr In response to builder01 comment that the Viton balls don't float, I naturally did put them in water and saw that they sank, my initial comment was that they tended to float maybe because the the SGs of Viton and stainless steel would show that the stainless steel would be heavier by some some small fraction and at the very small weights that we are talking about then the force of cohesion between the Viton ball and water could affect the re-seating characteristics of the Viton ball differently to the stainless steel. How I arrived at my conclusion was through experiment, far from scientific, which was to have the top sealing plug removed and gently operate the pump. With the Viton ball it was raised by the pressure of water from the ram and got pushed towards the pump output at right angles and stayed there, whereas the stainless steel behaved quite normally. Brian |
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Post by simplyloco on Oct 10, 2020 8:00:45 GMT
Painting the tender body black had to follow the same procedure as when applying the etched primer, viz outside on the lawn with some plastic sheeting to prevent the grass taking on the black colour and not picking up the grass shoots in close proximity close to the tender body. I would not have bothered taking pictures, because the presentation of the paintwork would not be classified as great, only functional in my estimation. I provided the photographs because at this time of year the gardens back and front are at their finest. So I attempted to show the flower beds in the background, but maybe they don't do justice to the picturesque nature that I was hoping to convey. SNIP Brian Lovely surroundings. On reflection, I don't think our Village Hall is quite as big as your lovely bungalow! John |
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,790
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Post by mbrown on Oct 10, 2020 18:23:38 GMT
There is a lot of work going into that garden... how do you find the time to spend in the workshop! Or are we looking at a "division of labour" here....
The tender is looking good.
Malcolm
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Oct 11, 2020 1:48:36 GMT
Lovely.
I am just off to work the workshop into something resembling your lovely home.
Our garden has gone beyond any hope at the moment and the lawn needs a REBUILD.
Work on the various roofs over the past 2 years have taken there toll on it.
I need some slightly slimmer stays so will have a Black Five Stay bashing session on the ones I have got then alter.
A new to me Flypress will come in handy. Must make some more tools for it.
It is a bit heavy to drag it out for a spray of paint.
David and Lily.
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Post by runner42 on Oct 11, 2020 7:17:09 GMT
John when we purchased the house over 40 years ago the real estate agent said the property was 19 squares and 1 square is 100 square feet, which is average for the houses in South Australia, but our daughter got married in a small church in Clarendon which is smaller than that.
Malcolm the gardener is in the background of the first picture, my wife has a passion for gardening. I only cut the grass.
David the inside is in need of decorating, haven't touched it for years, we've got to the age when we consider that spending money on 1980's decor is not money well spent since our continued tenure is on the countdown. The new owners will surely knock the house down and build a bigger two story house or a speculator will sub divide and put two homes on the block.
Brian
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Post by runner42 on Oct 20, 2020 6:15:26 GMT
Having got Steve's confirmation that a series feed connection for the tender hand pump output can provide the input to the axle pump thereby reducing the need for a backhead clack, I proceeded to arrange the pipework between the frames around the axle pump and where I intend to have the top feed fitting, so that the position of the connections on the frames can provide a straight up feed to the clacks in the top feed. The output from the axle pump provides two pathways one to the top feed clack and the another to the tender return via a cab positioned valve. The other connection is for the injector. Brian  pipework top feed by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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Post by jon38r80 on Oct 20, 2020 11:59:27 GMT
Very Neat.
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Post by coniston on Oct 20, 2020 21:11:12 GMT
Nice solution and a good bit of forward planning, well done.
Chris D
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Post by runner42 on Oct 29, 2020 5:39:11 GMT
I have established a 1" gap between the locomotive and tender drag bars, however I don't know if this is prototypical or there about. It was a bit of a head scratching exercise to make the tender to locomotive connections because the turning radii at SASMEE would probably require some not slight angular offset between the two. Based on this I had to set the connections to the tender back from the drag beam so that the flexible connections could accommodate this offset. Unfortunately, this is all wet finger guesswork as I have no means of testing the degree of offset because of the respective weights of the tender and locomotive. One thing is certain and that is all turns at SASMEE are right hand so it simplifies things a little. An aside does all clubs have loop layouts and all travel is in the clockwise direction? Brian  Tender_loco connections by Brian Leach, on Flickr  Tender_loco connections1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr |
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