Mini Mill / Small mill

[JonL]

My Triumph GT6 is up for sale, and my plan is to use the vacated garage as a Workshop; I'm fed up with working in a potting shed, constantly trying to keep water at bay.

This does mean I now have the space for a small milling machine, and also some money to put towards it. Exact budget isn't certain yet, but its not the only project vying for funds. It's a bit early to estimate but I reckon I'll have anywhere between £500 and £1,500, which I realise is a broad range, and not a huge budget.

Types of work I plan to do: I enjoy the 3.5 Gauge steam engine work, small stationary engines, and maybe one day a 5" gauge locomotive. Therefore the components I am likely to be machining will never really be bigger than a house-brick. 

DRO would be nice but not critical, CNC not really required or relevant for me. My garage is single phase only.

When it comes to mills I don't really understand the terminology, at what point does a small mill become a mini or micro mill? I assume bigger is better when it comes to rigidity?

As a result I'm open to suggestions on purchases, new, used or otherwise. 

Does anyone have any tips on things to look for? Brands to seek or avoid? Complications I haven't thought of? 

Any advice or tips very welcome, thank you in advance.

[JonL]

As a starting point, does this look likely to meet my needs? Sorry to be so clueless. I'm quite in the dark.

www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/SIEG-SX2-PLUS-Mini-Mill/SIEG-SX2P-HiTorque-Mill

[uuu]

I don't know that machine, but can make the following observations, based on the online information:

• It has a DC motor. This is not my preference - I like AC, particularly three-phase and inverter. But I recognise this may not be an option at this price point. Friends have mills with DC, and they use them successfully, although one chap has to turn on at a particular speed then vary, for some reason the motor won't just start at any speed - an odd fault on his machine, perhaps.
• The way the column is mounted to the base looks attractive. Some small mills have a single bolt holding up the column and are not so rigid.
• It seems to have proper vee ways and gib strips on the head, suggesting it will hold its position properly when racked up and down. But...you may find the quill has a fine feed, with graduations, but if the head itself only has a coarse feed, you'll find yourself limited to the quill movement in any one job. A DRO would help here.
• It has a proper R8 taper in the spindle. Hurrah!
• Throat height is 168mm. By the time you have your house brick in a vice on the table, there won't be room for a drill chuck with the drill sticking out. I've not got much more room in my own mill - and have to use a collet chuck for some drilling because of this.

Wilf

[JonL]

That is all extremely useful, thank you Wilf for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. From that I've gathered:
1) AC if possible (but difficult at this price!)
2) The more rigid the better, and that design seems good (I hasten to add it was one of the first I plucked from the catalog, just as a starting point).
3) Self explainatory
4) R8 taper is the way to go! (Now to go research the R8 taper...)
5) The Throat height is a little restrictive on this model.

Thank you.

[jem]

Have a look at Warco, I am very pleased with mine, R8 is great, but have a square column, round ones are a problem if you have to raise the head in the middle of a job. A Z axis dro is not necessary, so two axis Dro is ok with something for the quill.

best wishes Jem

[JonL]

Thank you Jem, something like this?


www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/31-wm-14-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

[uuu]

Aha! Reading the spec of that machine, I notice a misunderstanding I made when I looked at the earlier one. I had taken "throat" to mean the spindle to table distance. It's 285mm on the ArcEuro and 280mm on the Warco. So less of a problem space-wise than I'd thought.

Wilf

[smallbrother]

I have a Warco mini-mill which is about 8 years old. It is the equivalent of Arceurotrade's SX2.

I am currently milling the port face of a cylinder for 3.5" gauge Juliet.

As long as I remember to clamp everything and take light cuts it does the job and things turn out square and flat etc.

I bought a belt conversion kit off Ebay and it now runs much quieter as a result.

I would tackle some of the simpler/smaller 5" gauge locos with it but I reckon the bigger and more complex ones would require and justify the next size up. (e.g. SX3 from Arcurotrade)

Pete.

[barlowworks]

I have the Warco WM16 (next size up) and it has been fine. The motor speed readout can be a bit temperamental but a clean of the read head sorted that out ( see Petes Scotsman build in how to do it). There is a dro on the fine feed on the head which is handy. If you can run to a dro I would recommend it, I fitted one to mine last year and it has made all the difference.

Mike

[JonL]

The one common theme from reviews of the WM14 is "lovely bit of kit, but I wish I'd bought the WM16 as its a bit bigger". It's worth bearing in mind I guess.

I thought there were more choices, but Seig and Warco seem to be the main contenders at my budget end of the market. I looked at some second hand items but I just don't know what state they will be in.

It's interesting Pete that there is the potential to upgrade to belt drive at a later stage.

[jem]

Mine was a bigger Mill than the one you are thinking about, but if the spec is ok for you that is fine. Its always bigger is better with in reason. If you do fit a dro, only get it for the x and Y axis. and fit one for the quill but not the pillar z axis, in my opinion, others may disagree, but my z axis I have never used. With a little persuasion, you can perhaps squeeze the odd extra from Warco, but don't be too greedy!!

best wishes

Jem

[smallbrother]

Mar 3, 2020 15:12:23 GMT JonL said:

The one common theme from reviews of the WM14 is "lovely bit of kit, but I wish I'd bought the WM16 as its a bit bigger". It's worth bearing in mind I guess.

I thought there were more choices, but Seig and Warco seem to be the main contenders at my budget end of the market. I looked at some second hand items but I just don't know what state they will be in.

It's interesting Pete that there is the potential to upgrade to belt drive at a later stage.

I believe some of the machines are belt driven these days from the factory.

I like the look of the Arceurotrade ones. One of our club members has their SX3. He turns out lovely work but I think that is down to his skill as much as anything.

Pete.

[JonL]

Ok, the SX3 was on my RADAR. I don't often make purchases of this magnitude so would like to get it right!

Edit - thats not quite affordable to be honest.

[uuu]

Don't forget to factor in the other bits you'll need. Secure workholding is a key thing. Really secure. A good vice makes all the difference. You can knock up clamps etc yourself - although bought clamping kits are useful of course. Then you'll need toolholders, collets etc. And cutters. A wobbler is handy to find the edges - I like Huffam ones, they come up now and again on Ebay (they're over £50 new).

Wilf

[wink]

Get the biggest mill you can afford. I have a Warco WM14 and yes, I wish I'd stretched for something a bit bigger. I wouldn't fancy machining anything brick-sized. On your budget I'd look at a WM16 or an ARC Sieg SX2.7. DRO is well worthwhile but not utterly essential.

[springcrocus]

I posted this chart I made on here a few years back. It may be of some help.



I bought the one highlighted (opted for R8) and fitted a 2-axis DRO for another £250. There's a write-up on the fitting somewhere here also.

Regards, Steve

Edit: just dug up the LINKto the thread in question.

Steve

[runner42]

I have the Sieg  SX2P Milling Machine, it does in terms of capability all that I require for building a 5" gauge locomotive. There are a number of factors that I think pertinent; on the good side the 500W Dc motor is powerful enough for average cuts and being variable speed is IMO essential. Dearer AC motor milling machines tend to be speed change by altering pulley ratios and are a PIA. On the bad side the table tends to be not positioned under the quill in an optimum manner and would influence the size and type of machine vice that you would use. As a consequence of this the table is more towards the -Y axis and the Y jib being fairly long at the +Y end is exposed and affected by swarf. The X and Y table locks are useless, you require to tighten up the relevant axis jib adjustments instead.


Seig Mill by Brian Leach, on Flickr

Brian


   

[runner42]

Notwithstanding what you purchase, the milling machine is just the beginning. You have to obtain some essential additional equipment to start doing basic operations on a milling machine.

See www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=131318&p=1 for some examples.

Brian

[JonL]

This is all excellent stuff, thank you. I'm learning fast.

[jon38r80]

I bought a Warco WM16 but with an MT2 spndle just because it meant that some of the tooling I already had for my lathe would fit it and like you I was a little wary of the expense< I had an ER25 chuck MT2 arbour which has served well as a milling cutter holder ( I had it to do milling on my lathe which was pretty limited and why I bought the mill) it happily takes up to a 16mm milling cutter which Warco suggest is the capacity of the WM16 any way. It handles much bigger( and more expenive) shell mill cutters the largest so far 63mm in diameter.
As with all machining tools its not the machine but all the other stuiff that makes life easier that costs the most.Ive easily spent more than the cost of the machine.
I made a day out of going to Warco on one of their open days and got quite a good deal on the machine. If its not too far its worth the effort if you can wait that long!