Revision of Blue Book

[nonort]

When can we expect to hear more of the revision. The NAME have produced the non-ratified version on their website. The Southern Fed website is far from of any use to anyone as it stands. In this era of open and transparent management signing in for information, is draconian to say the least. No information on the site is commercially sensitive. Come on SFED stop this nonsense. I presume that this delay will mean that the published date of Jan 1st 2013 for the new reg's to to be brought in will pass by.

[cplmickey]

The 7 1/4 magazine had an article about this - doesn't seem to be anything on the website unfortunately. The implication was that the testing procedures remain largely the same but it was more of an administration change - new forms being printed up in readiness for next year . If I get chance later I'll put more info on when I get home unless someone beats me to it.

[Deleted]

Just received my December Southern Fed newsletter - it says that the introduction of the new test code has been delayed by the need to make some last minute amendments, so it won't be coming into force on 1st January as planned.

[GeorgeRay]

I beleive it will actually be the green book when it surfaces.

[Boadicea]

Try here

[fostergp6nhp]

I have just had a read thro and it still has the possibility of an engine with no steam blower fitted and defective safties to pass its test as the full blower requirement is 'as applicable', i raised this issue as not all road steam engines were blower fitted when built and i know of one 4" traction engine with no blower and very shite safeties that passes cos with no blower use it just sits sizzling at the red line, but under working conditions with a hot fire its a very different matter, i have seen the gauge needle almost commence a second revolution of the gauge face, it must have gone up to nearly 175psi when the red line is at 110psi and it was not blowing any harder at the safeties. I was not the driver, just a passenger on the trailer behind. When the engine was cold i pulled the safeties out and the 'wing valves' were just 3 small flats filed on and were still round plugs to about 3/32" from the flat seating face!!!!!

[nonort]

I assume that foster man has reported his findings to his club and the culprit has been stopped from steaming. This kind of thing is what will stop the steam engine world in the end. I suppose it is to early to get the health and safety boys worrying the electric boys with dead mans handle regulations etc.

[fostergp6nhp]

The engine owner has the attitude that if a blower is not fitted then you just bypass that bit of the test, so with the newer more wooly wording he will more likely bypass that bit. It was flagged up by two others as well before the revision. At the moment the odd time the engine does go out its static and cold as the owner is too occupied with other toys to sort it out. I will be keeping a close watch but its difficult as the culprit is not in any of my clubs.

[ejparrott]

I've just had a very very quick read of the stuff that was emailed through and I agree with Phil. It seems that what has been produced is little different, and certainly no better than what we had before. From what the NAME sent a few months back though, the new certificate is going to be even worse to fill in than the old.

I can see exisiting boiler inspectors giving two fingers over this new test code.

[nonort]

Many thanks to Boadicea for the link to what should be open and available information there is nothing that the southern fed do which requires it to have a signing in website. In the interests of the federation it would be better to have an open and transparent management to stop rumors spreading out of control.
It would seem that the Southern Fed representative on the MELG has run a kangaroo court. Having contacted the Royal Sun Alliance on this matter they have stated that the review was not instigated by them or driven by them in any way. The clubs and affiliated Society's have had little or no information from the MELG and certainly not passed back to the clubs for discussion. Not even in the Feds newsletter. The current view is that the old system was adequate and that was all that is required to satisfy the HSE. 'Best Practice' is not a phrase used by any one involved in today's health and safety world. 'Adequate' is the new buzz word. This is because it is left for a court to decide what is adequate. 'Best Practice' terminology leaves little for the defense lawyers to maneuver with. In my honest opinion the model engineering fraternity are backing them selves into a corner. On the other topic that I mentioned I have seen some pretty dreadful practice on some electric locos Some of which have two or more battery's floating around in the casing. it is an MOT failure for the battery to be insecure in a car so following the same thinking a Battery electric loco must have the battery's secured. Petrol diesel fueled locos should have non spill fuel caps to their tanks for the same reasoning. We are not far from a dictate as to a specification for riding trolleys beyond that laid down in the HSG 216 'Guide Lines'.I am sorry if this has turned into a little rant but if sensible reasoning does not prevail we who run club tracks will find ourselves ruled out of operation in the not distant future.

[GeorgeRay]

While all this discussion is going on I believe that until the regulations are made available in hard copy, ie the green book when published the regulations do not in fact have any standing they are still just discussion documents and any reference to 1st January 2013 will need to be changed to whenever they are actually published. There has been no attempt to inform Southern Federation Clubs and Societies when any new paperwork or copies of the regulation will be availalbe so dont hold your breath. Until all the members of MELG have agreed I dont see how the new code can be implemented.
From discussions I had with Southern Fed representatives at Sandown Park I am surprised that a copy of the draft has appeared on the website. Apparently they had no one at that time who was competent to update or post new information on the website.

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2012 16:23:20 GMT nonort said:

The current view is that the old system was adequate and that was all that is required to satisfy the HSE.

As I understand it, the new test code has been driven by a perceived non-compliance with the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 (PSSR) which state that a boiler must have a written scheme of examination (WSE). I find this strange because what is the blue book, if it isn't a WSE?

When I made some enquiries, I was told that each boiler must have its own individual WSE - but the PSSR doesn't actually say this.

[Boadicea]

Dec 16, 2012 10:54:17 GMT ejparrott said:

I can see exisiting boiler inspectors giving two fingers over this new test code.

I think nottle.

The code is what it is and we will have to comply if we want to run at a club. Simple as that. Otherwise, no insurance.

[ejparrott]

I said inspectors, not clubs. I wouldn't be suprised if our chief inspector gives up when the new forms come out, he is 80 now, and forever moaning about the current certs.

Tell me this, why do the current forms have a printed number on them, and then 2 spaces where you have to write that number in again yourself?

[maunsell]

From comments I have heard I would not be surprised if not only some inspectors walk away, but owners of smaller scale locomotives/traction engines do as well. It is more than possible that the clock could be turned back to the period of operating on private garden railways with the consequent loss of club life as we have come to know it today

[Boadicea]

Come on guys, I think you are over-reacting. There is not much difference to present testing.

Life will carry on much as present - if some of the boiler testers throw their rattle out of the pram, so be it. Others will take their place. One thing I have learned is the whole world rumbles on regardless of the individual - even boiler testers.

Having read it, I think it is very much a non-event. IMHO again.

[ejparrott]

From what I saw of the proposed new form sent out by NAME before their AGM, there's an awful lot more paperwork to do, and its the paperwork that is killing it. I hope the new form won't be that bad, I see no need to change from what we currently have at all.

[GeorgeRay]

Well its now January 1st and the Southern Federation hasn't provided the necessary documentation to enable boilers to be certificated so what should we do. Since we have boilers that need certificates now it looks as if ADMES will have to continue using the existing certificates for steam tests, fortunately we dont have any hydraulic tests in the pipeline.
We note that the Northern Association has details of all the required paperwork on its website but the southern fed doesn't, it only has a copy of the test code itself but not the WSE which the code says accompanies the code. It is a puzzle to me how the WSE which is numbered individually for each boiler can form part of the test code any more than the boiler certificates themselves. This is a bit nitpicky I know but it does show that those responsible don't have a very clear idea of expressing what they are trying to do.
The guidance notes on the NAME site aren't clear on where the yellow copy of the new certificate is to go either. Perhaps a boiler inspector from one of the NAME clubs can enlighten us. All rather acedemic until the certificates appear though.

[Deleted]

Jan 1, 2013 19:36:17 GMT GeorgeRay said:

Well its now January 1st and the Southern Federation hasn't provided the necessary documentation to enable boilers to be certificated so what should we do.

Carry on as before, until we hear otherwise.

[ejparrott]

Jan 1, 2013 19:36:17 GMT GeorgeRay said:

Perhaps a boiler inspector from one of the NAME clubs can enlighten us.

Rugby doesn't yet know the answer to that, and we are NAME affiliated!