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Post by maunsell on Jan 10, 2013 23:03:48 GMT
Same thing happens in Germany with the added comment "we don't have these things here" and when I asked about insurance without a current boiler certificate my friend assured me that it was not a problem!!!
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Post by Rex Hanman on Jan 10, 2013 23:16:49 GMT
With the info I received from Southern Fed earlier this week was an order form for the new certificates, WSE, and green book that are to be provided free of charge. It offered the option of collecting them from the Southern Fed stand at the Ali Pali exhibition.  I sent in my order by email and have today been informed that SF haven't received their allocation of forms.  I can't say I'm very surprised! ;D |
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Statesman
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Post by isc on Jan 11, 2013 11:41:00 GMT
As a non steamer, how many model boilers fail each year in the UK, and how many people injured/ killed. Why not follow the rest of the EU (France and Germany), it seems to me from a distance that it is only the Insurance companies that are pushing all this red tape. I'm proberbly right out of line, it's just my veiw. isc
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Post by ejparrott on Jan 11, 2013 13:34:30 GMT
Catastophic failures?
0 I know of....
People Injured by boilers failing?
0 I know of....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2013 13:56:30 GMT
As a non steamer, how many model boilers fail each year in the UK, and how many people injured/ killed. Why not follow the rest of the EU (France and Germany), it seems to me from a distance that it is only the Insurance companies that are pushing all this red tape. I'm proberbly right out of line, it's just my veiw. isc Mine too. It's amazing how many people out there do not understand 'risk'. If the word appears then it will happen, and we must prevent it at all cost! I expect that 'Probability' to these people means that someone in Eastender/Corrie/Emmerdale will get married/ killed/buried at some time in the next year.... JB |
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Post by Rex Hanman on Jan 11, 2013 14:44:56 GMT
Catastrophic failures? I am sure if there had been any they would have been written up in Model Engineer or Engineering in Miniature. I've not read every issue of either but I don't recall any cases.  It often seems that EU directives only apply to the UK  |
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Post by alanstepney on Jan 11, 2013 15:53:17 GMT
I spent a long time investigating boiler failures among model engineers in the past.
As far as I could discover, whilst there have been failures (no explosions) the last time that a boiler failed and caused SERIOUS injury, was in 1927.
That is why we have such low cost insurance.
As for EU rules, I was speaking to a Spanish model engineer who told me that they are allowed to issue their own certificates, to "prove" that their models are safe.
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Post by maunsell on Jan 11, 2013 16:20:34 GMT
Statesman in his comment#42 wondered whether the insurance companies were pushing the boundaries of boiler certification, but Nonort in his reply #42 on the 16 Dec 2012 commented that he had approached RSA who stated that they had not instigated the current test code review. This only leaves the Federation/Associations.
We are constantly advised that PSSR 2000 does NOT apply to the hobby, but the S Fed clearly state in their Information Sheet No 15 the paragraph on the Written Scheme of Examination that it does comply with PSSR 2000 so where does the hobby stand in these two opposed statements?
Given the way the test code has moved towards PSSR compliance the question also has to be asked how long before Boiler Inspector's have to submit a CV to have their competency approved?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2013 17:04:52 GMT
This only leaves the Federation/Associations. ....and the insurance brokers. The chairman of MELG works for Walker Midgeley. |
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Post by Rex Hanman on Jan 11, 2013 18:21:54 GMT
That is why we have such low cost insurance. . We ceased attending fetes with the portable track because we were only earning enough to cover the cost of the insurance.  Sorry. ot. |
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Post by Rex Hanman on Jan 11, 2013 18:44:49 GMT
According to Infomation Sheet 15 boilers below 3bar/litres are to be tested using the "Small Boiler Test Certificate" This is the first we have heard of it. Rather alarmingly it says, qoute.... "The Small Boiler Test Certificate combines a Written Scheme of Examination and a Test Certificate applicable to boiler (sic) with a pressure - volume product value of less that 3bar litres. It may be used by Clubs and Societies whose members operate small boilers such as locomotives, stationary engines and marine models on the Club or Society site" (My italics) As the smaller models are the most portable they are the ones most likely to travel away from home. According to the above they will not be able to run at other places. The folks most affected by this are the Gauge 1 guys and the 2 1/2" Gauge Society. Neither of these were represented on the MELG! Any comments from you guys? |
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Post by Boadicea on Jan 12, 2013 12:44:34 GMT
....The folks most affected by this are the Gauge 1 guys and the 2 1/2" Gauge Society. Neither of these were represented on the MELG! Any comments from you guys? They were represented by at least 3 federations - North, South and Midlands .... We are constantly advised that PSSR 2000 does NOT apply to the hobby, but the S Fed clearly state in their Information Sheet No 15 the paragraph on the Written Scheme of Examination that it does comply with PSSR 2000 so where does the hobby stand in these two opposed statements? They are not opposed statements - they are separate statements. It is possible to comply with PSSR 2000, even if does not apply. I see no problem in this. Wait and see is my advice. It appears to me, the new system is manageable and a realistic and responsible method of certifying model boilers. The communication is poor because it is done by pompous amateurs but hopefully it will improve. Criticism just brings the day nearer when we will have to pay a responsible body to do all of our certification - and I do not think anyone here will like what it brings. |
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Post by maunsell on Jan 12, 2013 15:05:40 GMT
Boadicea, the 2 1/2" Association are affiliated to the S Fed, but the Gauge One Association are not, therefore they neither had representation or voice.
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Post by Boadicea on Jan 13, 2013 9:43:01 GMT
Boadicea, the 2 1/2" Association are affiliated to the S Fed, but the Gauge One Association are not, therefore they neither had representation or voice. Many belong to clubs and are represented by them but I agree some are not represented. However, I do not think representation matters very much. The insurance company will dictate what regime is acceptable - not the other delegates. I say again, the alternative, if there is too much jangling, will be a professional body whom we will have to pay to test our boilers and it will bring discussion of a wholly different order. |
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Statesman
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Post by isc on Jan 13, 2013 11:35:32 GMT
Flourishing industry in the UK, the manufacture of RED TAPE, mind you its not too different here, except that the red tape is proberbly made in China. My sympathy is with you, there will always be someone trying to fix things that arn't actually broken, and messing things up for every one else. isc
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Post by g4tgk on Feb 4, 2013 19:45:06 GMT
I run a meths-fired Mamod on our club's garden railway 32mm track. It has no pressure gauge. How can that be tested?
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Post by steambuff2 on Feb 4, 2013 20:44:14 GMT
Read the section on "Small Boilers" in the Green Code Booklet ....
<Quote> Simple ‘small boilers’ which do not have a fitted pressure gauge or working components other than a safety valve shall be visually examined and then steamed at the maximum firing rate of the fuel. The test shall be continued for sufficient time as to allow the inspector to be satisfied that stable conditions have been attained. Normal operation of the safety valve and the absence of steam leaks or water from the boiler will indicate that the pressure system is working within its safe operating limits. <End Quote>
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 4, 2013 21:05:25 GMT
It offered the option of collecting them from the Southern Fed stand at the Ali Pali exhibition. Did anyone? RMES is still waiting to hear 'officially' about the update, and recieve new paperwork. |
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Post by Rex Hanman on Feb 4, 2013 21:23:02 GMT
Yes, they were waiting for me on the Southern Fed stand when I got there. Tried asking some pertinent questions but no answers were forthcoming. Asked the same questions on the Northern Association stand....they had all the answers. Think we might defect. ;D
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gwrfan
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 458
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Post by gwrfan on Feb 5, 2013 13:13:46 GMT
Hi All,
Are any of you able to say here what your own clubs are doing right now about boiler testing?
I've just been 'advised' by my club boiler tester not to re-assemble my Pansy following a recent hydraulic (passed) test, because he (our tester) is very unsure of the new rulings. It would appear that any hydraulic test carried out prior to Jan 1st is still valid, even if a steam test is yet to be carried out. However, he is still trying to work out the new rulings, and thinks that the steam test now has to be carried out at the same time as the hydraulic test, as there appears to be only one certificate.
Also, that he believes the new rulings may mean that the boiler has to be steam tested out of the frames!! Obviously in our scale there would be great difficulties in doing a steam test, up to max pressure + 10%, with blower fully open if the boiler was not in the frames and smokebox fully airtight.
So gents, how are your boiler inspectors interpreting the changes? What manner of testing is being carried out by your clubs since January 1st?
Geoff, with his Pansy in hundreds of pieces!!
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