Revision of Blue Book

[AndrewP]

I am witnessing 2 steam tests tomorrow night so can quiz our inspectors then but in the meantime the Northern Association's website has some notes under boiler testing which seem to help.
As I understand it the test certificate form can be used for either a steam or hydraulic test with just the relevant sections completed.
The suggestion that a steam test needs to be done out of the frames is a silliness that needs discounting immediately.

[gwrfan]

Thanks Andrew,

BTW, my club Inspector tells me that according to what he has read so far, there appears to be no requirement for a witness to the tests now. I find this a step in the wrong direction really.

I'd be interested to know how you get on tomorrow, meanwhile I'll just twiddle my thumbs in anticipation

Geoff

[ejparrott]

As far as I'm aware there's no requirement for a witness now.

[AndrewP]

Regarding witnesses :- There is a prompt for witness name and signature on the new test form with a note that "If the Inspector is authorised by his Club/Society to conduct tests without a witness write "Not Required"(see Boiler Test Code paragraph 3.9f)".
Paragraph 3.9f says :-
A Club or Society can agree that a boiler inspector be authorised to undertake examinations, hydraulic tests and steam tests without the presence of a witness. If such an agreement is made the boiler inspector shall be formally authorised to do so by the management of the Club or Society and the name of the boiler inspector shall be registered with the appropriate Federation or Association.

We haven't so I can't get out of it tomorrow even if I wanted to!

Andy

[GeorgeRay]

It is not that there is no requirement for a witness the Green book says that clubs may authorise an inspector to undertake examinations and tests without the presence of a witness. The boiler inspector must be formally authorised by the management of the club and the name of the boiler inspector shall be registered with the appropriate federation or association.
Furthermore the Southern Feds information sheet says 'The committee of the Southern Federation does not recommend that this concession be introduced but accepts that in certain circumstances it may be appropriate,'
The actual testing requirements are very little different to the previous code, so dont let people tell you differently.
Sorry this repeats some of Andys message I was obviously writing this at the same time.
The test certificate is universal in that it has sections for hydraulic and steam testing and whichever is not being undertaken that section isn't filled in.

[Shawki Shlemon]

Here in OZ a witness is not required ( is optional ) , up to the boiler inspector . Just for information .

[ejparrott]

Feb 5, 2013 19:54:56 GMT GeorgeRay said:

The actual testing requirements are very little different to the previous code, so dont let people tell you differently.

Its only really the certs that are different from what I can see.

[Deleted]

Quote from Northern Association website:

"NAME suggest that implementation should take place as from the first hydraulic test after 1st January 2013 with the present steam certificates being used during the remaining period of validity of the existing hydraulic certificate. Where it is felt that full compliance with the revised scheme is appropriate the boiler and system in question can of course be given a WSE and hydraulic test so that it complies with the new arrangements".

Quote from Southern Federation information sheet no.15:

"The new scheme is to be introduced at the time of the next test, whether it is a hydraulic or steam test, to minimise the time before a Written Scheme of Examination and new style certification is applied".

Who is right?

[AndrewP]

Two steam tests tonight, both passed, process exactly the same as before, used old forms as suggested by Northern Fed and because we don't have a supply of the new paperwork anyway.
Master pressure gauge is calibrated anyway.

[Boadicea]

Feb 5, 2013 19:54:56 GMT GeorgeRay said:

....Furthermore the Southern Feds information sheet says "The committee of the Southern Federation does not recommend that this concession be introduced but accepts that in certain circumstances it may be appropriate."

Just the kind of prattle I would expect from them. They have been elevated to a responsible position and then sit on the fence.

With this kind of documentation I think they should define what the circumstances are when it would be appropriate.

Why is when anyone uses the term "appropriate" they appear to be on the slide?

[RLWP]

Isn't sitting on a fence always an elevated position? Unless it is a short fence I suppose

Richard

[kwil]

Surely it is up to each Association/Federation to apply the new arrangements as it sees fit. They are independent of each other and merely come together to agree a master set of words.

[Boadicea]

Feb 7, 2013 10:27:35 GMT RLWP said:

Isn't sitting on a fence always an elevated position? Unless it is a short fence I suppose. Richard

Steady now Richard - we could get into vertically challenged fences and equal rights, bullying and harrassment.

Feb 7, 2013 12:27:00 GMT kwil said:

Surely it is up to each Association/Federation to apply the new arrangements as it sees fit. They are independent of each other and merely come together to agree a master set of words.

Maybe kwill, but I thought we were improving for clarity and alignment with other regulations. Surely a responsible body should not be saying they do not recommend something but maybe it is OK under certain circumstances without defining the circumstances. It should be yes we have witnesses or no we don't. Simples - I can cope with either.
The Southern Fed boiler man is called Wally I think.

[peterseager]

Surely it is up to each Association/Federation to apply the new arrangements as it sees fit. They are independent of each other and merely come together to agree a master set of words.

I hope not. Hopefully we have a certificate that is valid at any club in a least the UK. This implies a far more coherent approach to implementation than the quote suggests.

Peter

[GeorgeRay]

Boadicea
I didn't produce all the words in the Southern Fed info sheet but it ends up saying 'It should be noted that some Clubs and Societies may not accept certificates with only one signature. Therefore it is recommended that, if a member is visiting another Club or Society, the member should contact the club before visiting and clarify the situation.'
Quite clearly if a club does not require a witness then it would be very stupid to not accept certificates without a witness but the code implies that this is not the norm.
I dont think that the Southern Fed is sitting on the fence, verically challenged or not, it is putting forward a very good reason to think about before going down the no witness path.
Wally Pearson is the man responsible for the written statement of examination his name appears on the bottom as the Chartered Engineer of the MELG who are responsible for this new paperwork and code.

[gwrfan]

As a bit of an update on the test certificates, I have today received some bumf from the Southern Fed. They state;

"There will be a delay in getting out these packages (they mean the new certs, etc) of up to two months because of the volume of work to be carried out. In the mean time you may still use the old Certificates and they will be valid until their expiry date. We recommend that when you receive the Written Scheme of Examination Certificates that you make out one for each boiler you have tested in 2013, Hydraulic or steam, so that they comply with the Regulations (PSSR)."

So that's good news in part.

So now I am busy re-assembling my 'Pansy' in readiness for a Steam test before Easter.

[heronsgate]

We have had our 'new' certificates and 'green books' etc from NAMES for over a week now, why the delay from the S/Fed I ask myself? Perhaps Boadicea judges them correctly!

[gwrfan]

Having been told by the Southern Fed at the beginning of this month that there would be a delay in sending the new certs out due in part to the need to source a parcel delivery service with favourable rates, our stuff arrived within a few days, but by Royal Main, in a cardboard box, unwrapped and with the contents breaking out of the packaging!

Not a very good start, but at least our club now has them, but only just!

[steambuff2]

Our club is a member of the S/Fed and we have had our new certificates etc arrive in the post well over a week ago as well.

[ejparrott]

Still waiting for SFed, had from NAME for a week.